Feature

Tue 11 Mar, 1:00 pm UTC

Technique: How to get your seat height right

By Nick Morgan

Setting the correct seat height would seem to be such a fundamental part of cycling that you would have thought the boffins had agreed long ago on the best method. But you’d be wrong.

One thing all the experts agree on however is that if you get the height wrong, the effects can be catastrophic. A brand new study suggests that setting the height too low can decrease time to exhaustion by as much as 12 per cent. 

Consequently cyclists with limited time on their hands might actually get more out of a shorter session by lowering their seats to a sub-optimal level so as to make it harder.

It’s an interesting theory, but even knowing how to get it wrong presupposes that you know how to get it right, and many don’t.  Read on to find out exactly how to do it.

1 The Heel method

The heel method: the heel method

This is the one every bike shop owner or gym assistant will tell you whenever you clamber onto the saddle. You place the heel of your shoe on the pedal and set the saddle height so your leg is straight at the bottom of the pedal cycle with the pelvis remaining in a horizontal position. 

Despite this commonly heard method, there is virtually no scientific evidence to support it and it often leads to the saddle height being adjusted too low.

Professor Will Pelever of Mississippi University for Women has written several papers comparing methods for finding the best seat height and says, “The main problem is that this method does not take into account individual variations in femur, tibia and foot length.”

2 The 109% method

A more robust method was developed by Hamley & Thomas in a 1967 paper. They experimented with different saddle heights and found that the ideal was achieved when the saddle was positioned at 109% of your inseam length when measuring from the pedal axle to the top of the seat height. 

Your inseam measurement is basically the length from your crotch to the floor. To calculate this, face a wall and put a thick-ish book between your legs as if it were a saddle. Ensuring that you are standing straight with your heels on the floor, mark a line along the top of the book edge touching the wall. 

The distance from the floor to the height of the mark is your inseam measurement. It’s best to measure it several times and take an average. 

This has proved an extremely popular method and is recommended by many top-level coaches. Yet a recent study by Professor Pelever found that it was inferior to the Holmes method (see below) both in terms of power output and economy.

3 The LeMond method

This is a popular variation on the 109% method and pioneered by the three time Tour de France winner Greg LeMond.

Also using inseam length as a guide, this formula calculates 88.3% of your inseam length and uses it to measure the distance from the centre of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat height.

Interestingly, Pelever has shown that this often produces a different seat height from the 109% method and although it seems to work for many people, it may not be ideal for someone with particularly long femur bones.

4 The Holmes method

This was originally developed to reduce over-use injuries in cycling and takes a different approach entirely from the other three. 

It uses a device called a goniometer for measuring the angle of the knee joint at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Holmes recommends an angle of between 25 and 35 degrees and closer to 25 for those with a history of patella tendonitis.

This may all sound a bit technical and if so it’s probably best to go with one of the two inseam methods, but you can pick up a goniometer for around £20 from medical suppliers.

Pelever’s research has shown that setting your seat height based on a knee angle of 25 degrees outperforms all other methods (including an angle of 35 degrees). “Using a goniometer and a 25 degree angle is definitely the method I’d recommend,” he says.

Don’t rely on simply feeling comfortable either. “If you’ve been pedalling at a much lower saddle height than is optimal, it may feel awkward in the beginning,” says Pelever. 

“However, as your body adapts (usually in two to three weeks) the new position will not only feel comfortable, but will improve performance in the long run.”

Of course, if you still feel uncomfortable after a few weeks then you will need to make changes. It’s best to use the 25 degree knee angle as a starting place. Have someone watch from behind to ensure that your hips do not rock back and forth across the saddle due to over extension at the bottom of the stroke. If that is the case then the angle may need to be adjusted upwards slightly for comfort.

“When I finish fitting someone on their bike, their knee angle is usually somewhere between 25 and 30 degrees, but much closer to 25 on most all occasions,” says Pelever.

User Comments

There are 14 comments on this post

Showing 1 - 14 of 14 comments

  • How does the Lemond method allow for different crank lengths? Or what crank length does it assume?

    Similarly, none of the methods (except perhaps the Holmes) takes into account shoe sole thickness which can vary quite a bit. I know if I chose to go shopping at lunchtime (clips and straps era) my saddle always felt too low because my work shoes had a slightly thicker sole than my cycling shoes. I doubt if the difference was much more than 3 mm (if that) so it goes to show what tiny differences can be perceived, whether they affect performance is another matter.

    Geoff

  • Has anyone tried the LeMond Method?

    I've changed my saddle height (from 'natural' to LeMond) and it dropped down by 4 cm.

    I now feel as though I'm too low and it feels wrong.

    When I was measuring from the centre of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat height, I measured it directly ie along the seat tube, is that correct?

  • I applaud Nick's article on saddle height, as it does highlight a very important element in bike fitting. However, I must disagree with his conclusions. While taking measurements has long since been shown to be less than ideal, setting leg angles in an incomplete manner such as Nick suggests is not ideal for most cyclists as well. Why? It doesn't take into account the cyclist's overall anatomy and biomechanics. Two cyclists of the same height and overall physical dimensions can have very different cycling motions.

    For proper fit, including saddle height, aa top cycling technicial mus also be able to assess the athlete's range of motion and flexibility. Often times soft tissue work or even anatomical adjustment is necessary to optimize range of motion. Without this as a starting point, there is jeopardy of injury.

    After this starting point, measuring for leg angle is appropriate, but must be done using the proper anatomical 'landmarks' to properly measure the angle from the hip throiugh the knee joint to the ankle. Using these landmarks, the proper leg angle is normally in the 36-40 degree range, not 25 degrees.

    Our company, John Howard Performance Sports (www.johnhowardsports.com) specializes in using proper biomechanics to guide our bike fits. We are able to achieve power increases in the 10%-25% range while increasing rider comfort and reducing the risk of injury. We document all of our results. Our clients include professional cyclists and triathletes as well as serious recreational cyclists and everything in between.

    Our body is the motor; if the motor is malfunctioning, the car won't run properly.

  • The correct hieght issue is also linked to the how far back should the seat be, I have noticed that sprinting/reaching and maintaining a high pedal/cadance rate seems to be easiest when my seat is pushed forward on the rails, and the seat tube angle therefore at it's steepest, but I get most power when I have the seat pushed back on the rails, and thereby reduce the seat tube angle.(Fortunately when it gets so steep this encourages the front to come up I get out of the saddle which pushed the forks down again)...

    Given that you can now get turbo trainers which also have power output measure meters is it worth finding a gym with one of these and working out your own personal optimum pedal power seat position both hieght and rail/seat tube angle, or is there also an issue about what set up you have trained on is always going to come out best on a short term test?

  • Beware!

    Height is only ONE of many variables:-

    saddle tilt

    fore/aft relation to the Bottom-bracket (in turn dependant on the Seat-tube angle and seat-post lay-back)

    reach and height of handlebars

    rider's suppleness

    purpose;- an evening 10 or a sportif; flat raods or steep ups and downs.

    From personal suffering I do know that even minute variations can have profound effects an comfort, performance and handling.

    Why was Eddy Merks so pernickety and fiddling constantly with his saddle?

    I strongly advise against the 109% rule. Too high! The reaseach was performed for short duration track events and only measured efficiency.

    Sitting too high "pulls" you over the domed narrow fore-part of the saddle. The weight is then borne by the perineum and not the ischial tuberosities - and it hurts.

    The goniometer method is best but still needs trial and improvement and attention to the other variables I above listed. Remember that once you get going you may not keep that ever-so-ideal postion.

    Carry the tools with you. The consequences of some of the changes can be counter-intuitive.

    All the best.

  • the 109% is way way to high im 6 foot and with this method i more like 8 foot high, it very wrong for sure.

    also they said messure from "pedal axle to the top of the seat height. " this doesnt mean messure from bottom bracket /crank where gears are,

    i messured from the pedal axle to the top of the seat height for the lemond method and found it only slightly higher than when i bought bike so probally the best out of the three for normal use.

    the angle one is far to complex and doing a DIY job is just oing to mess up your body unless professtional does it

  • Yes 100% or Le Mond way are too high for me. I am female and have long thighs. As a beginner about 6 years ago, the B/F set up my saddle far to high with the result that I had undercarridge pain on the saddle as well as such sore glute on one side where I was ricking on the saddle that i cold not lie in bed at night on that side. The goniometer is by far eh best way, but must also take into account rider flexibility in the hamstrings as well as preferred foot tilt when pedalling - I naturally point my feet down slightly no mater how high the saddle is positioned. BTW I gradually made adjustments over the years to come to the right position which was more or less spot on the same as the height I was given two years ago by Cycle Fit in London. They just take the weeks or months of adjustment out of it and get it right for you straight away.

  • I have had 3 different kinds of fits....the knee angle, measuring bone lengths, and Retul. Retul makes the most sense, since it is dynamic. Measuring inseam overall does not make sense, since femur, tibia and foot length matter. Also, saddle setback has to enter into the equation (probably first), since it influence effective saddle height.

  • www.competitivecyclist.com/

    try the fit calculator

  • I think the front/aft possision of the saddle is the best place to start. you need to get the weight distrebution right in order to be stable on the bike.

    Forget all the rules/guidelines you hear about.

    The right saddleheight is when you kan reach the bottom of the pedalstroke with power and control with both legs.

    The last part is important because both legs are seldom exactly the same lenght, or you may be tighter in the hamstrings on one side shortening the lenghth that the leg can reach without overextending. There are many structural issues that impact your saddle height. Some can be resolved with shims and wedges but many are best adressed with stretching and core strengthening.

    The right saddleheight is something you need to work on. In my experience no formula or guideline will give the right heigh, there are to many variables,but it will get you in the right ballpark.

    Cyclingnews.com has a great form & fitness Q&A where you can find lots of information on all kinds of bike fit issues. http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/

  • The LeMond Method? Surely measuring to the centre of the bottom bracket must assume a particular crank length?

  • Hi to you all.This is my maiden submission to the site,so I will avoid the missiles as and when!!!.I have retuned(Freudian Slip) returned to cycling after a longish period of abscense mainly caused by the need for total left knee replacement.However,to the point of my submission.There appears to be a lot more technological theorizing than ever there was in the old days;when you selected your rocket climbed aboard and got on with it.As with all aspects of life subjectivity is the fist consideration in your cycle tool kit.In my case a METRIC ALLEN KEY selection in my CAPE ROLL.(YES I am an OLD SOD!!!!!!!!!!1945 vintage,I was one of those that borrowed and never returned MIVVI,PENDLETONS TWICER and all of the other excellent wraps for the cape straped to the underside of my BLACK BROOKES SWALLOW.I am 4'10&1/2",23&1/2 inside leg and have had total left knee replacement.,the problem of mechanical knee and short limbs overcome by 140mm crank arms.Now there is a worthwhile puzzle for optimum positioning/gearing on my Italian Stallion.Adjustments on the road(to comfort)are easy with modern kit(ALLEN KEYS,wonderfull!!!.As much as I waxed lyrical over my Swallow the best bit of modern kit(just added) is my Selle Italia Gel Saddle(in BLUE LEATHER to match in with the bike).I intend to give a try with the one with the pressure relief channel.As so rightly pointed out THE PERINIUM in Pain is not pleasant.Happy and COMFORTABLE RIDING to you all.

  • Hi,I am very surprised to find no input to this topic since my bit!!!.I would love to know what the experts would devise for me; compared to what I actually do have.Well here we go.I am 4' 10&1/2,with a 23&1/2 inside leg.Replacement Left Knee surgery has meant the need to ride with 140mm crank arms to achieve full rotation,(prior to this I did not have a problem).I have found throughout my life, to date, that short stature causes the need for a lot of trade offs.Everything about riding cycles is about the individual and being comfortable,physical & mental to enable stress free use of the bike.There are enough W*nke*s out there to bring it on anyway.

  • also bear in mind if you had a seat with suspension bear in mind that sag when you sit on it, and this theory doesnt show what sizes of cranks they were using or the thickness of the pedal so really you need to look at the proper scientific paper and mind out what works best for you

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