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japsy
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 39
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 Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 1:05 am |
Think I've knackered my rear wheel - I hit a pothole and the rim walls bulges out on both sides and the spoke nearest the bulge is loose (which must mean it has a flatspot.) I'm assuming the rim is stuffed and beyond compare? Not to worry, wasn't an expensive wheel. Could rebuild the wheel with a new rim but the hub isn't anything special (whatever came with the Giant SCR in 2006) and looking at prices on chain reaction for a complete wheel, I can get one for 35 quid like http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=42961. Only question is, what does 'screw on freewheel' mean? Looking at the pictures, the freehub body is not included. Can I take me freewheel/freehub stuff from my old one and put it on this one?
I reckon a LBS won't be able to rebuild my wheel for less than 35 quid.
Thanks.
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Sicknote
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 746
Location: North London
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 2:27 am |
I have the same problem but my back wheel is not as bad and still ride able just.
I am going to re-build the wheel myself as mine are a camgag hub, old but still fine.
Got the rim is just need to sort out the new spokes and not to forget build my wheel truing stand.
Should have the stand made in a few hours tomorrow evening 
Give it a go and you learn a new skill.
Have a look at Wheel building pro for a good book on it, which I have just downloaded.
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night_porter
Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 18
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 3:47 am |
A screw-on freewheel is different to a cassette/freehub you will need to know which one you have before buying a wheel. Fortunately CRC have a sale on http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=42939 this is suitable for a cassette and it is cheaper than the Miche wheel you saw.
You will also need to buy a freehub removal tool and chainwhip to fit your wheel but the good news is that if you have a freewheel you won't need the chain whip.
Although it sounds complicated it isn't really and once you have bought the tools you will have them forever, my lbs wanted £6.00 to remove a freewheel and the tool/chain whip cost me a tenner (I wanted to swap freewheels so it would have cost £12.00 for them to do it). I then found I didn't even need the chain whip as the tool will remove a freewheel without it but the chainwhip came in handy for removing the cassette from other bikes. Once removed the freewheel is self tightening when you pedal but you need the tools again to tighten a cassette.
Good luck with changing it.
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amaferanga
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1346
Location: Sheffield
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 8:30 am |
I'd say get some new wheels - by the time you buy a decent rim and spokes you'd be looking at £30-£40 at least, but at the end of the day you'd have a wheel built onto a very ordinary hub. Maybe buy some decent wheels and then try to pick up a cheap rim and spokes to rebuild your existing wheel as a spare/winter wheel?
If you can stretch your budget to £125 you could get some Planet X Model B's, which would improve the look of your bike hugely and cut down on weight a bit as well.
More problems but still living.... |
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japsy
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 39
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 10:55 am |
| night_porter wrote: | A screw-on freewheel is different to a cassette/freehub you will need to know which one you have before buying a wheel. Fortunately CRC have a sale on http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=42939 this is suitable for a cassette and it is cheaper than the Miche wheel you saw.
You will also need to buy a freehub removal tool and chainwhip to fit your wheel but the good news is that if you have a freewheel you won't need the chain whip.
Although it sounds complicated it isn't really and once you have bought the tools you will have them forever, my lbs wanted £6.00 to remove a freewheel and the tool/chain whip cost me a tenner (I wanted to swap freewheels so it would have cost £12.00 for them to do it). I then found I didn't even need the chain whip as the tool will remove a freewheel without it but the chainwhip came in handy for removing the cassette from other bikes. Once removed the freewheel is self tightening when you pedal but you need the tools again to tighten a cassette.
Good luck with changing it. |
Thanks night porter for clarifying. I have a cassette/freehub so the wheel you suggest is perfect. I already have the tools.
Amaferanga, I already have some 'summer' wheels so thanks for the suggestion. I like the idea of getting a new rim and some spokes and trying to rebuild. Will investigate.
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japsy
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 39
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 10:57 am |
| Sicknote wrote: | I have the same problem but my back wheel is not as bad and still ride able just.
I am going to re-build the wheel myself as mine are a camgag hub, old but still fine.
Got the rim is just need to sort out the new spokes and not to forget build my wheel truing stand.
Should have the stand made in a few hours tomorrow evening
Give it a go and you learn a new skill.
Have a look at Wheel building pro for a good book on it, which I have just downloaded. |
As wheel stands you can buy are in to the hundreds, I'm curious about your diy stand. Care to share more details?
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Geoff_SS
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 1045
Location: Derbyshire UK
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japsy
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 39
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 11:48 am |
| Geoff_SS wrote: | | japsy wrote: | | Sicknote wrote: | I have the same problem but my back wheel is not as bad and still ride able just.
I am going to re-build the wheel myself as mine are a camgag hub, old but still fine.
Got the rim is just need to sort out the new spokes and not to forget build my wheel truing stand.
Should have the stand made in a few hours tomorrow evening
Give it a go and you learn a new skill.
Have a look at Wheel building pro for a good book on it, which I have just downloaded. |
As wheel stands you can buy are in to the hundreds, I'm curious about your diy stand. Care to share more details? |
For a first foray into wheel building a stand is an unnecessary expense. All my wheels were built using the bike frame as a stand and my thumb to check both trueness and eccentricity before I bought the inexpensive stand I use now. Does away with the need for a dishing tool as well if you get the wheel into the middle of the frame.
All you need are the components and a decent spoke key.
Geoff |
Thanks for the advice. Very tempted to give it a go. I will probably go to the LBS to buy a new rim and spokes. If I took the old wheel, will they be able to tell me the correct length of spokes? Or should I find out what the hub is and get it's measurements?
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Geoff_SS
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 1045
Location: Derbyshire UK
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:04 pm |
Just take out a spoke from each side and measure it. The drive side spokes may be slightly shorter to account for the dishing. I've replaced worn rims in the past by simply taping the new rim alongside the old one and swapping the spokes over one by one. Saves worrying about lacing the spokes properly or even removing the cassette/freewheel block and is quite a quick job.
Geoff
Old cyclists never die; they just fit smaller chainrings ... and pedal faster |
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amaferanga
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1346
Location: Sheffield
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:31 pm |
| Geoff_SS wrote: | Just take out a spoke from each side and measure it. The drive side spokes may be slightly shorter to account for the dishing. I've replaced worn rims in the past by simply taping the new rim alongside the old one and swapping the spokes over one by one. Saves worrying about lacing the spokes properly or even removing the cassette/freewheel block and is quite a quick job.
Geoff |
That'll only work if the new rim has the same dimensions (ERD) as the old one. Assuming the old rim is an Alex DA22 (that's what my SCR had) then the ERD is 594mm. So if you get a new rim with the same ERD then you can get the spoke lengths from your current wheel. I think the SCR used Formula hubs, but don't know their dimensions.
More problems but still living.... |
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japsy
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 39
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:32 pm |
| Geoff_SS wrote: | Just take out a spoke from each side and measure it. The drive side spokes may be slightly shorter to account for the dishing. I've replaced worn rims in the past by simply taping the new rim alongside the old one and swapping the spokes over one by one. Saves worrying about lacing the spokes properly or even removing the cassette/freewheel block and is quite a quick job.
Geoff |
That will only work if I get exactly the same rim right? Don't think I will be able to get exactly the same one.
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japsy
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 39
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:35 pm |
| amaferanga wrote: | | Geoff_SS wrote: | Just take out a spoke from each side and measure it. The drive side spokes may be slightly shorter to account for the dishing. I've replaced worn rims in the past by simply taping the new rim alongside the old one and swapping the spokes over one by one. Saves worrying about lacing the spokes properly or even removing the cassette/freewheel block and is quite a quick job.
Geoff |
That'll only work if the new rim has the same dimensions (ERD) as the old one. Assuming the old rim is an Alex DA22 (that's what my SCR had) then the ERD is 594mm. So if you get a new rim with the same ERD then you can get the spoke lengths from your current wheel. I think the SCR used Formula hubs, but don't know their dimensions. |
Thanks amaferanga. So ERD (what does that stand for?) is the key measurement and if I get the same one, then the old spokes are ok to reuse? You are correct, the rim is a Alex DA22.
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ride_whenever
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 8277
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:43 pm |
don't re-use the spokes. Get new ones, they're not hugely expensive but they do have a finite lifetime.
A tension meter for spokes is actually very helpful as it allows you to properly check that the tensions are even.
Depending on how good terms you are on with the mechanics at your lbs, you might be able to get one to teach you how to build wheels properly. Lots of little tricks that make life so much easier. Like using a match to start the nipples onto the spokes. Really really easy and saves a huge amount of time.
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456!
silly little bike |
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amaferanga
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1346
Location: Sheffield
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:45 pm |
Effective Rim Diameter.
The ERD for the DA22 is 594mm according to the Alex website, but 597mm according the DT Swiss spoke calculator (http://www.dtswiss.com/). I'd probably go with the DT Swiss number as it's always been right for me in the past.
EDIT: and here they reckon its 600mm. Doh!
More problems but still living.... |
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Chunkers1980
Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 42
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:48 pm |
I noted that someone was interested in DIY Trueing stands..... I have made 2 over my career - all have worked very well for both fettling and actual builds. Let me know if any one would like a photo of my current one and I'll try and get it up as my explanation might be a little patchy.
I'll start with my old and most solid one - I don't have a vice anymore so this was out of the question for a cheapo one this time.
Take a workbench mounted vice. Cut for example a broom handle in half or to a length that works. Clamp these ends in to the vice so that the tops are level. Notch out grooves at the top of each so that it's as if you have a bike upside down and the QR axel sits in it nicely. If you want a more secure but annoying fit, simply drill holes either side of the notches, put the wheel in the notches and slide the QR skewer through and lightly tighten.
Find some flat ended (pref plastic but metal will work OK if you're careful) screws or bolts really as they are equal width from top to bottom. Drill a hole (exactly where your normal size rim would be) so it is veryt slightly smaller than the bolt then just screw in the bolt. This bolt can then be screwed in and out so that you can start truing your wheel. Do forget that this wont dish your wheel you will need to take it out and put it in your frame as regular points so that you get this part correct.
You can also 'do' roundness quite well. Find something that has less width than the space inbetween, above the vice, and just keep adding small amounts until it touches, adjust and keep incrementing it.
Having just explained all that, I don't feel like explaining my current one, may do tomorrow if anyone is interested.... Any questions just let me know.
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ride_whenever
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 8277
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 12:58 pm |
| amaferanga wrote: | Effective Rim Diameter.
The ERD for the DA22 is 594mm according to the Alex website, but 597mm according the DT Swiss spoke calculator (http://www.dtswiss.com/). I'd probably go with the DT Swiss number as it's always been right for me in the past.
EDIT: and here they reckon its 600mm. Doh! |
Really, i've given up using the dt calculator as it always goes horribly wrong.... Now just buy hubs and rims and measure it all myself.
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456!
silly little bike |
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amaferanga
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 1346
Location: Sheffield
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 1:50 pm |
Yep, never been so far out that I couldn't build the wheel.
More problems but still living.... |
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Sicknote
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 746
Location: North London
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 3:01 pm |
@japsy
the book on that site I linked has plans for one in it and should not cost much as you should be able to go to a wood yard and buy small off cuts for next to nothing.
I am lucky as I has have all I need in the workshop.
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Geoff_SS
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 1045
Location: Derbyshire UK
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 3:14 pm |
| amaferanga wrote: | | Geoff_SS wrote: | Just take out a spoke from each side and measure it. The drive side spokes may be slightly shorter to account for the dishing. I've replaced worn rims in the past by simply taping the new rim alongside the old one and swapping the spokes over one by one. Saves worrying about lacing the spokes properly or even removing the cassette/freewheel block and is quite a quick job.
Geoff |
That'll only work if the new rim has the same dimensions (ERD) as the old one. Assuming the old rim is an Alex DA22 (that's what my SCR had) then the ERD is 594mm. So if you get a new rim with the same ERD then you can get the spoke lengths from your current wheel. I think the SCR used Formula hubs, but don't know their dimensions. |
In theory, you're absolutely right but in practice, unless it's an extreme rim (ie very deep) I've never found the difference to be a problem. The biggest factor affecting spoke length is hub flange diameter, which isn't changing in this case.
Spokes do have a fatigue life, of course, but this is a relatively new bike so the spokes aren't that old. My wife wears out brake blocks and subsequently rims at a furious rate on her Marin hybrid. Over the last 5/6 years she's done over 30,000 miles and I've replaced both rims (both different from the originals) and used the same spokes using the taped on method. She has yet to break a spoke. I think the rear rim is getting near it's end of life again. She measures and records the thickness each time she replaces a tyre. I wish I were as methodical - I'm just the repair grunt.
Geoff
Old cyclists never die; they just fit smaller chainrings ... and pedal faster |
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John.T
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 1748
Location: Harrogate. N. Yorkshire. UK
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 7:33 pm |
| ride_whenever wrote: | | don't re-use the spokes. Get new ones, they're not hugely expensive but they do have a finite lifetime. |
Never had any bother re-using spokes. My winter bike has now had at least 2 new rims, back and front. The spokes are 9 years old and have done about 25000 miles now as have the hubs. I just changed the rims as Geoff said.
My MTB wheels have had 2 rear rims and 1 front one. I have also rebuilt them with new hubs when I went disc brake. The only original things are the spokes. All these wheels are still true and have never broken a spoke. (Fingers crossed now).
My Bikes.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hgte/sets/72157610908038642/detail/ |
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