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davmaggs
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 98
Location: United Kingdom
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 Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 3:00 pm |
I've noticed a few threads about lights etc. Whilst I don't go overboard on the lights I have to say that there appears to be a breed of experienced cyclists (judging by gear and location) who are insane.
A couple of evenings I've been walking next to Green Park and usually gawp at the various bikes zipping past. It's a road that I normally ride up rather than walk, but I hadn't really thought about it from a driver's perspective. This week I've spotted numerous people go past dressed in black with no lights, and some roadies with a tiny and barely visible rear light. I now see how the low sodium lights and blur of other vehicles means that they are invisible within only a few metres.
I might be heading towards being an old man, but when I see them heading towards a four lane roundabout I think that they must be insane. I can barely see them and I'm strolling down the pavement.
</rant>
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Gazzaputt
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Posts: 714
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 3:18 pm |
Agree about roadie riders.
Saw a guy last week beautiful Colnago with a powertap. Worth a fortune and he has the silliest piddly light going.
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Gussio
Joined: 17 May 2007
Posts: 816
Location: Richmond, London
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 3:25 pm |
Overtaken by two guys last night on the King's Road. Both wearing head to toe black on really nice looking singlespeeds. Not a light between them. Darwinian.
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snailracer
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 133
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 9:44 pm |
Warning: controversial comments follow...
I am in two minds about bike ninjas. As a car driver, I think they're irresponsible. But as a cycling advocate, the more "irresponsible" cycling there is, the more likely car drivers are to pay attention to what's in front of them and drive more carefully. Besides, cars carry powerful lights and should be able to see what's in front of them in the dark. If they don't see them in time, then they were being driven too fast, which seems to be the norm. Peds don't carry lights or reflectors, do they, and yet are expected to cross the road?
An example I often come across is streets full of BMX-riding kids jumping all over the road during the school run. Cars are driven more slowly and carefully, with the net result of improved safety for everyone.
As a society, we have lost sight of the fact that it's the introduction of motor vehicles that made hitherto-safe streets dangerous, and yet the message, by some twisted logic, is that other road users are at fault for not getting out of their way. Sorry, but I don't accept this view. I think the onus on avoiding accidents should lie with drivers of motor vehicles. Cycling or walking at night without lights is only a problem because cars are being driven too fast and without due care - all power to the bike ninjas!
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Il Principe
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 6565
Location: Riding Karen
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Posted Thu Nov 5, 2009 10:37 pm |
| snailracer wrote: | Warning: controversial comments follow...
I am in two minds about bike ninjas. As a car driver, I think they're irresponsible. But as a cycling advocate, the more "irresponsible" cycling there is, the more likely car drivers are to pay attention to what's in front of them and drive more carefully. Besides, cars carry powerful lights and should be able to see what's in front of them in the dark. |
Right and what about peds and other cyclists, I've had close calls with Ninja's* before, it's moronic to ride without lights or reflective when it's dark, and trust me, being hit by a car is no sodding fun. Now that I've been forced onto the bus** I'm amazed at the number of lightless riders I'm seeing every single day.
*Luckily my Kung Fu is strong.
**Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Prince
Pearson |
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jimmypippa
Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 562
Location: Peak District
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 6:48 am |
| Il Principe wrote: | | snailracer wrote: | Warning: controversial comments follow...
I am in two minds about bike ninjas. As a car driver, I think they're irresponsible. But as a cycling advocate, the more "irresponsible" cycling there is, the more likely car drivers are to pay attention to what's in front of them and drive more carefully. Besides, cars carry powerful lights and should be able to see what's in front of them in the dark.
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Right and what about peds and other cyclists, I've had close calls with Ninja's* before, it's moronic to ride without lights or reflective when it's dark, and trust me, being hit by a car is no sodding fun. Now that I've been forced onto the bus** I'm amazed at the number of lightless riders I'm seeing every single day.
*Luckily my Kung Fu is strong.
**Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr |
Indeed, there is "assertive", and there is "irresponsible". The ninjas I see come in several tribes, two I can think of are the blacked out roadies: would a car expect to see an equivalent vehicle travelling at speed with no form of lights or illumination, say a motor scooter? Then there are the BSO brigade, who tend to ride on the road or pavement as and when it suits them, possibly against the flow of traffic. They are a hazard to everyone.
I see your point around schools, but I think it is unreasonable for cyclists who make every effort to not be seen to do this on (say) dual carriageways, which I have also seen (in both the dark and rain)
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BentMikey
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 4681
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jopari
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 25
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 9:22 am |
I'll bite, regarding Snailracer's comment.
Car drivers definitley need to slow down and improve awareness of other road users, be they bikes, scooters or peds, but to improve awareness by de-creasing visibility??
Take it to it's logical conclusion, all cars should run without lights and crawl at 5mph.
You're cycling up the wrong one-way street there...
FCN 10
Hybrid commuter in Leeds |
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spen666
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 14557
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 9:33 am |
To give the other side for a minute. I'm typing this at home off work injured as last night on way home I was hit from behind by a car going same direction as me.
My lighting at front I had solid ay up lights and a flashing smart light and at the read
4 ( yes 4 smart 1/2 watt lights and a cat eye ld600 light- all on
Oh and I was wearing a hi viz vest
Driver said SMIDSY!
Seems they ain't going to see you no matter what!
Please |
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deptfordmarmoset
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 383
Location: Sour Feast Lahn'n
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 10:04 am |
Sorry to hear that, Spen666. I hope your injuries are not too serious and that you get out and about again very soon. And that said driver will pay for damages, injuries, reassess their (lack of) driving skills, etc, etc.
That said, if drivers aren't paying attention, no amount of mobile Christmas decorations are going to change anything - the only thing that will change things is proper enforcement/bans/retraining (ideally with a mandatory period of bike proficiency training for drivers).
Apart from that, all you can do is give yourself the best chance of being seen.
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BentMikey
Joined: 07 Mar 2005
Posts: 4681
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 10:13 am |
Oooh bummer Spen, I'm sorry to hear that. Hope it's not too serious? Did they stop and give details?
Jopari, you've totally missed the point.
My bikes
My skates |
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DonDaddyD
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 4146
Location: The middle distance
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 10:16 am |
Sorry to hear that Spen666.
I got rear ended by a girl. I had stopped for a car turning right from the main road. Behind me all I could hear was the squeal of trainers on tarmac as this girl desperately tried to stop.
She did by hitting my back wheel. We and the bikes were fine.
Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights as you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game |
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will3
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 1126
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 10:32 am |
| spen666 wrote: |
Driver said SMIDSY!
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how did the rest of the conversation go?
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spen666
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Posts: 14557
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 4:51 pm |
I'm not too bad- bit of whiplash etc. Bike needs new wheeland other bits.
I was very restrained- loads of witnesses gave details. Apparently he had driven like an aar*ehole weaving at speed through taraffic before hitting me. Luckily, i slid down road rather than falling downwards, so my clothing took the damage- need new tights, top etc, but no major injuries.
bikeshop quoted for repairs and are rebuilding wheel as we speak and i've got insurance details etc and police involved.
Its a hazard of life when commuting. That's 3 times in 5 years I have been hit from behind.
not sure what more I can do
5 rear lights- hi viz vest. Was riding in primary position in bus lane etc. I'm sure I must be doing something wrong to have 3 rear end hits in 5 year but I'll be buggered if I know what it is
Thanks for your sympathy everyone.
Please |
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symo
Joined: 03 Oct 2008
Posts: 507
Location: Devon - Would move to London but is now Devon fast. It's the hills you know.
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 4:53 pm |
Caned into a Ninja on Wednesday on his BMX under a bridge on an unlit path. I was tanking it and destroyed him. I asked if he was alright and he just started swearing so I replied "If you want me to avoid you get some funking lights".
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esamenoi
Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 37
Location: Eastbourne UK
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 4:59 pm |
Symo
I know exactly how you feel. Similar sort of thing happened to me the other day. Bloody ninjas!!!
"Clothing:
None +3" Pure awesomeness!
A Felt Q520... My baby and first serious bike! - http://is.gd/9Vab |
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shouldbeinbed
Joined: 16 Sep 2009
Posts: 285
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 6:11 pm |
snailracer - mmm, agree in the main but peds 'live' on the pavement, ninja cyclists 'live' on the roads and are therefore far more exposed to the danger of cars.
also sadly years and countless deaths of experience show that whilst 99% of drivers are fine the 1% dickhead minority won't give a toss for their responsibilities to others no matter what, and they live on a planet where their big metal cocoon means that they are always right and always have right of way.
Also got to be honest, round here (suburban, rural and town) motorists aren't going any slower for ninjas, they're just slamming their anchors on at the last minute when they see them and storing up all that bad feeling to vent on the next cyclist that comes along whether another ninja or lit like a christmas tree.
Motorists shouldn't have to slow down to take account of numpties who think they are invincible by being invisible and that colours a negative preception and bad attitude towards the rest of us.
(thats not to say that motorists shouldn't slow down and pay more attention, but two wrongs don't make it right)
I'd say that the net effect of ninjas makes life somewhat less safe for all of us rather than significantly less safe for themselves only.
FCN 7 & 9 |
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spasypaddy
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 1288
Location: London, England
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 6:19 pm |
ok i regularly commute in a completely black kit:
black jersey
black winter tights
black winter boots
black helmet
black buff
black gloves.
ive been told im a madman but because i have a strada on the front and a blackburn mars 4.0 on the back im lit up. I find that cars actually treat me as another motor vehicle on the road.
I'm not a fan of hi-viz for two reasons:
1. i hate how it looks
2. i think that if you make it too easy for a driver to see you their brain hasnt triggered that they've seen you.
Ive only ever had problems when riding when its daylight.
Planet X (Geared) - FCN 3
Premier (fixed/SS) - FCN 3 |
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biondino
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 5153
Location: Putney, SW London
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WheezyMcChubby
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 835
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 6:39 pm |
| spen666 wrote: | I'm not too bad- bit of whiplash etc. Bike needs new wheeland other bits.
I was very restrained- loads of witnesses gave details. Apparently he had driven like an aar*ehole weaving at speed through taraffic before hitting me. Luckily, i slid down road rather than falling downwards, so my clothing took the damage- need new tights, top etc, but no major injuries.
bikeshop quoted for repairs and are rebuilding wheel as we speak and i've got insurance details etc and police involved. |
He hit, and I mean this with great love and affection, a grumpy pedantic lawyer while driving like an ar5e
I think he's about to have a very bad day
Commute in winter hibernation
Weekend Leisure Cyclist
http://www.startfarm.co.uk/scstats/index.php |
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