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andyp
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 7430
Location: United Kingdom
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 Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 5:58 pm |
| Dave_1 wrote: |
So you think team wide doping-everyone at it within the team with DSs help? My apologies for giving some of them the benefit of the doubt...on the average some of 38 athletes will be honest.
From what we read Millar went to an Euskatel Dr for EPO, Ricco and Piepoli to their own Dr....these are examples of riders going outwith teams to dope......hardly team wide doping. Your theory leads to the conclusion that whole teams sit together and inject EPO or other stuff? I believe riders can opt out of doping if they wish, you don't.... |
Yes I believe there is team wide doping and of course the DSs know what's going on. They need to decide race strategies and knowing who is in form, who isn't, the strengths and weakness of each rider, who's doped, who isn't, etc. is essential to this. I don't think every team does this anymore like the 1990s but it's clear some still are.
My theory doesn't lead to the conclusion you've drawn, rather there will a well co-ordinated program in place. Matt Rendell describes how in Mercatone Uno one rider was always clean so he could be sent down first to the 'vampires' when they were tested to give the rest of the team time to get their haematocrit levels done below 50%.
I'm sure riders can opt out, but in some teams they'll be the ones looking for new employment at the end of the year.
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Dave_1
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 7371
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 4:36 am |
| andyp wrote: | | Dave_1 wrote: |
So you think team wide doping-everyone at it within the team with DSs help? My apologies for giving some of them the benefit of the doubt...on the average some of 38 athletes will be honest.
From what we read Millar went to an Euskatel Dr for EPO, Ricco and Piepoli to their own Dr....these are examples of riders going outwith teams to dope......hardly team wide doping. Your theory leads to the conclusion that whole teams sit together and inject EPO or other stuff? I believe riders can opt out of doping if they wish, you don't.... |
Yes I believe there is team wide doping and of course the DSs know what's going on. They need to decide race strategies and knowing who is in form, who isn't, the strengths and weakness of each rider, who's doped, who isn't, etc. is essential to this. I don't think every team does this anymore like the 1990s but it's clear some still are.
My theory doesn't lead to the conclusion you've drawn, rather there will a well co-ordinated program in place. Matt Rendell describes how in Mercatone Uno one rider was always clean so he could be sent down first to the 'vampires' when they were tested to give the rest of the team time to get their haematocrit levels done below 50%.
I'm sure riders can opt out, but in some teams they'll be the ones looking for new employment at the end of the year. |
I see the Gianetti team have a very high turnover 12 of 24 leaving in 08 let's see how many in 09...I'd say a high turnover says something negative about the team....one issue...David Millar had very few offers in 05/06 I guess...remember all the DSs who wouldn't touch him..they were all interviewed in 2005 late in the year. To be fair, maybe Millar had very few choices at that point so we can't declare him + for joing Gianetti's team..I don't believe he did EPO after the ban or he'd have won more than he has.
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andyp
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 7430
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 8:02 am |
A cynic might say that Gianetti signed Millar as a PR gesture, i.e. we're a team who support riders who are vocal in their anti-doping stance.
I seem to recall Millar being pretty damning about the practices of certain riders in the team after he'd left?
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LangerDan
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 3750
Location: Ar Mhuin na Muice
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 11:09 am |
| andyp wrote: | A cynic might say that Gianetti signed Millar as a PR gesture, i.e. we're a team who support riders who are vocal in their anti-doping stance.
I seem to recall Millar being pretty damning about the practices of certain riders in the team after he'd left? |
"There's none so pure
As the reformed hoor"
"Those are my principles. If you don't like them....well, I have others" |
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jerry3571
Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 213
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 11:21 am |
I think the top riders can have their own specialised drug programme; a bit like Ullrich getting his fat burning pills around the time of the Tour of Switzerland. I think he once did the Giro and was very chunky, won the Tour of Switzerland and was soft looking and unlike what Armstrong thought, Ullrich was ripped for the Tour.
Ullrich, I guess, would get his instructions from Dr Fuentes and then his information passed on to the Telekom Doctors to implement. It's a bit like a GP defering to a Consultant when more specialised treatment is needed. Of course Ullrich would be putting up the £35 000 cash. Team discussions would sort this all out with Manager, Team Docs and Fuentes and the rider.
The trick is that the Team and the rider want to win at all costs so they find, as a Team, the best methods to do so. A rider on his own would not be able to carry out this complex medical treatment especially the dopey ones and remembering some of Ullrich's tactics in the past...well...I wouldn't want to put a needle in his hand.
-Jerry
Ps- I do agree that if a rider wants to go dope free then he/she must be a huge talent to be a able to do their job. Also, the pay would be less as the doping makes you go faster and the faster and longer you go the more use to a Team you are. If you want to get dropped on the first mountain and abandon races, not sprint or stay at the front for long or be too tired to fetch water bootles all day at 50 kmph then there is no place on professional Team.
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dennisn
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 4129
Location: Toledo, Ohio USA
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 1:38 pm |
| LangerDan wrote: | | andyp wrote: | A cynic might say that Gianetti signed Millar as a PR gesture, i.e. we're a team who support riders who are vocal in their anti-doping stance.
I seem to recall Millar being pretty damning about the practices of certain riders in the team after he'd left? |
"There's none so pure
As the reformed hoor" |
+1 or the reformed smoker
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