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simmo3801
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Blyth Bridge, Peeblesshire
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 Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 11:28 pm |
Looking at Merlin wheel build on Mavic XC717 rims. Basically what I want to know is would I notice a big difference between the two. Other than a larger dent in the wallet and the ticking freewheel noise? Are Hopes really worth over £100 more for a pair of wheels over xt?
They will be going on a 2005 Kona cindercone with RS Reba race forks which is all I've really upgraded so far. Riding xc and Glentress as it's 11 miles away 
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supersonicLives Here
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 47948
Location: Chapeltown, Sheffield
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 11:38 pm |
Main difference is that the main bearings with XT are adjustable loose ball cup and cone, with Hope are cartridge bearings.
The XT uses a replacable freehub body, Hope's is rebuildable.
XT freehub body is steel, the Hope is aluminium (and requires a cassette with an alloy spider).
XT has fixed axles, the Hopes can be changed to most common types.
The newest XTs weights are 175g, 339g (f and r centrelock), the Hope 185g, 285g (6 bolt)
Zaskar LE 1996
Zaskar Carbon Team
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simmo3801
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Blyth Bridge, Peeblesshire
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 11:45 pm |
Ok thanks again Sonic, you are truly a font of all knowledge!!
I think XTs for me and put the left over towards mechs as I've just mangled my rear one.
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supersonicLives Here
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 47948
Location: Chapeltown, Sheffield
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Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009 11:47 pm |
Remember though that the older 6 bolt XT hubs are heavier, and don't have as good seals or as quicka pick up on the freehub.
Zaskar LE 1996
Zaskar Carbon Team
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simmo3801
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Blyth Bridge, Peeblesshire
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 12:04 am |
Sphericals!!! If I get the new XTs with centre locks, my old hayes HFX 9 discs won't fit them will they?
Ok just found a centre lock adapter on Superstar for a tenner. Will that be ok or should I go back to looking at different hubs....
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supersonicLives Here
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 47948
Location: Chapeltown, Sheffield
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simmo3801
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Blyth Bridge, Peeblesshire
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 1:19 pm |
Of course! For some reason (red wine probably) I had thought my forks wouldn't be compatible but they don't have anything to do with the fork. Doh!!!
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dave_hill
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 3630
Location: Burnley, Lancs.
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 3:35 pm |
| supersonic wrote: | | XT freehub body is steel, the Hope is aluminium (and requires a cassette with an alloy spider). |
Unless you upgrade to a steel freehub rotor for another £60.
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supersonicLives Here
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 47948
Location: Chapeltown, Sheffield
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stubs
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 989
Location: merseyside
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Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009 5:24 pm |
| dave_hill wrote: | | supersonic wrote: | | XT freehub body is steel, the Hope is aluminium (and requires a cassette with an alloy spider). |
Unless you upgrade to a steel freehub rotor for another £60. |
The Hope steel freehub seems to be a porky lump. How come they can machine an alloy freehub to within a thou of its life but the hub with steel freehub body feels way heavier than a Shimano XT hub with steel freehub body when I compared the weight of the two in my hands. Is it something to do with having to cut the steel to the same dimensions as the ally.
Fig rolls: proof that god loves cyclists and that she wants us to do another lap
Commencal Super 4.2
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supersonicLives Here
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 47948
Location: Chapeltown, Sheffield
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stubs
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 989
Location: merseyside
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dave_hill
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 3630
Location: Burnley, Lancs.
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stubs
Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 989
Location: merseyside
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richg1979
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 188
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Posted Sun Nov 8, 2009 12:21 am |
i weighed a 09 xt rear 6bolt hub and they weigh exactly 560g. twice the weight of a hope.
both good hubs though, dont get much better for your money than a xt.
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supersonicLives Here
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 47948
Location: Chapeltown, Sheffield
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Posted Sun Nov 8, 2009 3:08 am |
Shimano don't do years, they do model numbers - what weighed 560g?
Speaking of 17-4, I had a set of golf clubs made from it. They were beautiful. I still have the wedge 15 years on.
Anyway, would be nice if Hope offered a steel freehubbed Pro2 as standard, but it woule weigh more than an XT...
On the flip side though an alloy bodied shimano as an option would be nice.
Zaskar LE 1996
Zaskar Carbon Team
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simmo3801
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Blyth Bridge, Peeblesshire
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Posted Sun Nov 8, 2009 9:14 am |
Ok thanks everyone. I take it something like an SLX or XT xassette on the Hope hubs would be ok?
From Merlin on XT
Double rivets on the 34T sprocket to the alloy spider for increased rigidity
and SLX
•Top 3 sprockets on an alloy carrier to save weight
or just the XT?
Secondly are there any other recommendations than these 2 wheelsets? I've trawled about various forums and most seem to recommend the Mavic with Hope build?
Thanks
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bails87
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Posts: 647
Location: Solihull, United Kingdom
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Posted Sun Nov 8, 2009 9:16 am |
Just the XT and above, and equivalent SRAMs on the Hope hubs
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simmo3801
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Blyth Bridge, Peeblesshire
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Posted Sun Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am |
Ok cheers Bails, and everyone else for your help and advice.
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dave_hill
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 3630
Location: Burnley, Lancs.
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Posted Sun Nov 8, 2009 11:44 am |
| stubs wrote: | | I would imagine that a freehub body made using impression die press forging or centrifugal casting with some cnc finishing work would come in a lot lighter. |
Hope don't use any die castings or forgings. Everything is machined from solid billet.
| stubs wrote: | | However to build in more lightness the steel freehub body can not be the same dimensions as the ally one therefore Hope would have to use different bearings, springs and pawls. |
The steel and aluminium rotor bodies are exactly the same. Same dimensions, same bearings, same springs and pawls. If they weren't that would mean that you'd have to hold different spares in stock. As it is, Hope don't hold different bearings, springs and pawls for steel rotors.
If you machine two identical components, one from 6061 T6 aluminium and one from EN8A steel; hard anodise the aluminium one and case-harden the steel one; then the steel one is always going to be considerably heavier.
(I just plucked those two grades of material out of the air as an example, I don't know what Hope use. But I can't see them using fancy aerospace alloys just for the steel freehubs because they can't form a large proportionof their range. I suspect that they'll use a fairly cheap, easily machined and heat-treatable alloy. That being the case it may have a fairly high lead content, hence the extra mass.)
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