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Kiblams
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 744
Location: Derbyshire
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supersonicLives Here
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
Posts: 48007
Location: Chapeltown, Sheffield
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Sarnian
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 965
Location: Donky Island
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 Posted Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:14 pm |
I can't remember who brought It out but there was a air shifter and gears around In the mid 90's
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ramemtbers
Joined: 25 May 2009
Posts: 831
Location: Millbrook
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Posted Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:16 pm |
clever ideas but i guess it costs a tonne.
you dont have to hug trees 2 be green but it helps severly
"i can cook. it just so happens i know how to drive a microwave aswell"
www.ramemtbers.webs.com |
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geordiefreerider
Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 849
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blakef111
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 253
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Posted Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:33 pm |
| Sarnian wrote: | | I can't remember who brought It out but there was a air shifter and gears around In the mid 90's |
shimano airlines, DH specific though
| geordiefreerider wrote: | | There are systems available (I remember thinking the same thing 5 years ago), but they cost a fortune, there is also an electrically operated system by shimano. |
shimano dura ace di2
My girls (updated!) : Sabrina -Persephone-Tamara |
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jay12
Joined: 29 May 2009
Posts: 1217
Location: Northwich,Chesire, Jamaica
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Posted Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:34 pm |
| geordiefreerider wrote: | | There are systems available (I remember thinking the same thing 5 years ago), but they cost a fortune, there is also an electrically operated system by shimano. |
that dura ace though and the front mech costs over £500 and rear something like £800
92% of teenagers have turned to rap. If your one of the 8% that still listens to real music put this in your sig.
Current Bike: 04 Raleigh Alona
New bike in 2010: Can't wait |
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redvee
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 4221
Location: Bristol
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Posted Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:37 pm |
Shimano did the air shifters called Airlines. Pic on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cycleologist/2038980300/
Can't find no tech docs though.
IIRC Hope did hydraulic shifting, a normal shifter pulling cable through a hydraulic acuator and the reverse set-up at the rear mech.
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blakef111
Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 253
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jairaj
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 434
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Posted Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:22 pm |
So how come hydraulic gears aren't popular then? Did they not offer many pro's over a easier to maintain cable system?
Also, does that rear mech above only have one jockey wheel or am I missing out on something?
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nicklouseLives Here
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 48203
Location: A Yorkshire man in Sweden
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R+P+K
Joined: 28 Oct 2009
Posts: 4
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Posted Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:48 am |
If it ain't broke, don't fix it?
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bomberesque
Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 1136
Location: Belgium, where rain is typical
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Posted Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:49 am |
| nicklouse wrote: | | why would you want hydro gears? |
why would we want any new product? It's an eternal question, 20 years ago when a 35mm suspension fork weighed >2kg and cost 500 quid we wondered why we want suspension on a mountainbike, today front suspension is all but ubiquitous.
That said, I doubt that the evolution of gearing systems will lay down the path of the rear and front deurallier and even if I'm wrong about that I doubt that hydraulic would be the way. There would have to be so much R&D behind it to get it to a level where it could compete cost and weight wise (as you point out nick) with current spring/cable systems and the fact that the big boys don't seem interested (as you also point out, something hand hewn in some German guy's shed will always be bloody expensive) I suggest means that theyve either got a better idea (Gboxes) or they've looked, thought "nahhh" and plan to stick with cable gearing systems.
The motor actuated electronic shifting of the new Shimano group reminds me of the experiment Mavic did with RF shifters about 15 years back. That didn't take off and I kinda doubt that this will either. It's too expensive (OK that will change if they ramp up production) and I can't think that it competes weight wise with an equivalent cable actuated road group (although I've not looked)
I did see an article somewhere about a hydraulic drivetrain though (replacing the chain with a hydraulic pump), that was a bonkers idea
Personally I rekon frame mounted gearbox based on Alfine type tech with belt drive but then gain maybe we'll continue using Deore till the sun implodes, they're built well enough to last that long
Everything in moderation ... except beer
Beer in moderation ... is a waste of beer
If riding an XC race bike is like touching the trail,
then riding a rigid singlespeed is like licking it
... or being punched by it, depending on the day |
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yoohoo999
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 404
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Posted Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:16 am |
| bomberesque wrote: | | nicklouse wrote: | | why would you want hydro gears? |
why would we want any new product? |
I agree.
I'm extremely grateful for those who do continually look to new ways to improve existing products. If we all took the view that what we have at the moment can't be improved, innovation and progress would skid to a rather unattractive halt.
I get to work alongside some hugely talented people from various fields of engineering and I'm always staggered by the amount of energy they have to continually improve something that they only just finished improving the day before.
MTB is a very competitive market (although still not as competitive as it could be) and companies spend a heck of a lot of time and money improving existing products and developing new technologies just to retain market share and see a return on all that R&D.
I don't for one minute imagine the response from the lead innovators at Shimano/SRAM was "why would you want hydro gears?" when the potential of such a product was discussed. It would more likely be "well, let's see if it can work and if the benefits are worth the additional cost/weight/silly colour etc".
I agree that the absence of hydro gears in the mainstream tells us a lot about the likely results of those studies/tests.........they don't offer much better performance over cable given the additional cost/maintenance/weight/reliability etc. But we can only guess, unless of course you happen to be on the board of Shimano or SRAM 
I remember thinking that V brakes were mindblowing when they came out. My old canit's suddenly looked positively stupid. Then when disc brakes became available to the masses, I thought, "what was the point in having a rim brake at all! What a silly idea when you could have something connected to your hub!"
But even disc brakes in their current incarnation have evolved over time. The same will happen with most components on our bikes over the next decade.
Perhaps hydro gears will never be a viable solution to shifting, but the culmination of all the efforts of the engineers trying (and failing to a certain degree) to develop those ideas will generally lead to the best solution, or lend its technolgy to other areas of the sport.
The big one for me is when someone will get their greasy finger out and develop a decent remote dropping post!!! Then I'm sure we will all be laughing at the likes of the Joplin/Command Post/KS etc when we see how useless they really are. Oh wait a minute, we are laughing at their inability to work now! 
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sarkmeister
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 62
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:31 am |
The only advantage I could ever see in hydraulic gears is if they could make it lighter than cables.
Brakes are generally better hydraulic because of the increased modulation of the force exerted on the lever. A gear shift is a more finite and simple movement, which can be transmitted quite easily by a cable.
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Paul 8v
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 183
Location: Maldon, Essex
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Posted Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:54 pm |
Mavic did an electric system called Zap years ago, I think Chris Boardman used it in one of the Tour De France's
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stevieboy
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 638
Location: Working, Training, Eating, Sleeping...Probably
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daniel_owen_uk
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 133
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Posted Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:07 am |
The lack of cable stretch when using hydraulic gears would surely be an advantage?
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nicklouseLives Here
Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 48203
Location: A Yorkshire man in Sweden
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stevieboy
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 638
Location: Working, Training, Eating, Sleeping...Probably
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