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prawny
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 1668
Location: Cannock Chase
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 Posted Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:26 pm |
| RockyHopperShow wrote: | | As one of those £40k, 35 hour-a-week (I wish) drivers I think I should respond to the original post. I used to work for FCC's predecessor, Thameslink, and found them to be a reasonable company to work for. FirstGroup however are a very different animal. How they keep any rail franchise is anyone's guess. The pay deal offered is a two-year deal which offers not a jot in the way of a pay rise. You may think that Train Drivers earn quite enough and I respect your opinion, but be aware that we are in a very fragile position now where the slightest mistake is pounced upon by 'wet-behind-the-ears' managers who are only too willing to slap you down if it gives them a leg-up the ladder. It's not quite "three strikes and out" just yet but it's getting there. Sure we're very well paid....better than some very deserving medical staff for example...... but that's not the point. We all strive for a better standard of living and don't take too kindly when, in real terms, the company make a derisory offer but then stand to put up fares by some considerable margin. It's the staff that make the profits. The plain fact is FirstGroup have known that they were going to be short of drivers for some time but find it easier to rely on the goodwill of their staff and it has come back to bite them. First Capital Connect have become a bit of a Train Driver Training School where new entrants get a foot in the door then up sticks to a better company after their probationary period expires. Getting up at 2 in the morning or getting home after midnight is okay but there are times when you just don't want to have to do it on your day off. That's why FCC should be looking at themselves and either recruit enough drivers to fill the agreed rosters or treat the existing staff properly. It is very easy to portray the workforce as the villains and the media have much to do with this. There are two sides to every story. |
I'm on your side mate, I can't if I got regular overtime and then my company decided that they weren't paying it anymore why would I volounteer. Sod em, if they wan't to contract you to work sundays and bank holidays then fine, if not then there has to be some incentive.
FCN 9 - Saracen Dirttrax Disc
FCN 5 - Boardman Road Comp |
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rally200
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 476
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Posted Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:53 pm |
Be fair, steering one of those huge great trains and keeping it balanced on those tiny little rails must be bloody difficult,
and think about tube drivers, they have to do all that in the dark.
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marchant
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 173
Location: Outside, over there
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Wallace1492
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1145
Location: North Glasgow
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yesiamtom
Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 10
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Posted Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:04 am |
I find the people who work on trains are always fairly nice.
The people selling you tickets and loitering around the station looking important seem to wee-wee me off regardless of whether i have to deal with them or not.
I recently had a train terminated by the 'controller' a stop short of my 3 stop journey. I walked the last part of the journey faster than the next train got there. a 15 minutes journey taking almost 2 hours was taking the wee-wee.
I find it ridiculous someone would plan their business on the assumption that their workers will do overtime, hire some more workers ffs. Then you wont have to pay them double pay to work. or as RockyHopperShow said, treat the drivers with respect.
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roger merriman
Joined: 01 Jan 2008
Posts: 1889
Location: Londonish
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Posted Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:24 am |
| yesiamtom wrote: | I find the people who work on trains are always fairly nice.
The people selling you tickets and loitering around the station looking important seem to wee-wee me off regardless of whether i have to deal with them or not.
I recently had a train terminated by the 'controller' a stop short of my 3 stop journey. I walked the last part of the journey faster than the next train got there. a 15 minutes journey taking almost 2 hours was taking the wee-wee.
I find it ridiculous someone would plan their business on the assumption that their workers will do overtime, hire some more workers ffs. Then you wont have to pay them double pay to work. or as RockyHopperShow said, treat the drivers with respect. |
to be fair a fair number of companies rely on overtime, the problem is when your relying too much on overtime.
does sound like this is the case with the trains.
silly tash time http://uk.movember.com/mospace/204583 |
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Headhuunter
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1353
Location: SE London
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Posted Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:36 am |
| RockyHopperShow wrote: | | As one of those £40k, 35 hour-a-week (I wish) drivers I think I should respond to the original post. I used to work for FCC's predecessor, Thameslink, and found them to be a reasonable company to work for. FirstGroup however are a very different animal. How they keep any rail franchise is anyone's guess. The pay deal offered is a two-year deal which offers not a jot in the way of a pay rise. You may think that Train Drivers earn quite enough and I respect your opinion, but be aware that we are in a very fragile position now where the slightest mistake is pounced upon by 'wet-behind-the-ears' managers who are only too willing to slap you down if it gives them a leg-up the ladder. It's not quite "three strikes and out" just yet but it's getting there. Sure we're very well paid....better than some very deserving medical staff for example...... but that's not the point. We all strive for a better standard of living and don't take too kindly when, in real terms, the company make a derisory offer but then stand to put up fares by some considerable margin. It's the staff that make the profits. The plain fact is FirstGroup have known that they were going to be short of drivers for some time but find it easier to rely on the goodwill of their staff and it has come back to bite them. First Capital Connect have become a bit of a Train Driver Training School where new entrants get a foot in the door then up sticks to a better company after their probationary period expires. Getting up at 2 in the morning or getting home after midnight is okay but there are times when you just don't want to have to do it on your day off. That's why FCC should be looking at themselves and either recruit enough drivers to fill the agreed rosters or treat the existing staff properly. It is very easy to portray the workforce as the villains and the media have much to do with this. There are two sides to every story. |
Sorry.... Pay RISE?? At a time when a lot of people have lost their jobs and inflation and interest rates are at practically zero and the economy is shrinking/growing at its slowest rate since the 1930s? Bloody train and Tube drivers need to wake up tor reality....
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." Voltaire |
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Sewinman
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 765
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Posted Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:22 am |
| RockyHopperShow wrote: | | As one of those £40k, 35 hour-a-week (I wish) drivers I think I should respond to the original post. I used to work for FCC's predecessor, Thameslink, and found them to be a reasonable company to work for. FirstGroup however are a very different animal. How they keep any rail franchise is anyone's guess. The pay deal offered is a two-year deal which offers not a jot in the way of a pay rise. You may think that Train Drivers earn quite enough and I respect your opinion, but be aware that we are in a very fragile position now where the slightest mistake is pounced upon by 'wet-behind-the-ears' managers who are only too willing to slap you down if it gives them a leg-up the ladder. It's not quite "three strikes and out" just yet but it's getting there. Sure we're very well paid....better than some very deserving medical staff for example...... but that's not the point. We all strive for a better standard of living and don't take too kindly when, in real terms, the company make a derisory offer but then stand to put up fares by some considerable margin. It's the staff that make the profits. The plain fact is FirstGroup have known that they were going to be short of drivers for some time but find it easier to rely on the goodwill of their staff and it has come back to bite them. First Capital Connect have become a bit of a Train Driver Training School where new entrants get a foot in the door then up sticks to a better company after their probationary period expires. Getting up at 2 in the morning or getting home after midnight is okay but there are times when you just don't want to have to do it on your day off. That's why FCC should be looking at themselves and either recruit enough drivers to fill the agreed rosters or treat the existing staff properly. It is very easy to portray the workforce as the villains and the media have much to do with this. There are two sides to every story. |
Do some work.
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snailracer
Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 133
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Posted Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:23 pm |
Surely, since the railways were privatised, the public can no longer criticise train drivers for being greedy? Drivers are employed by FCC, a ruthless corporation that is in it for bottom-line profit. Unions/drivers are entitled to deal with FCC in a similarly hard-nosed, commercial manner, especially as there appears to be no goodwill on either side. In commerce, the aim is to maximise profit, nothing else.
We should be holding FCC responsible for the disruption, because we pay ticket money to FCC, not the drivers/staff. FCC is the franchise holder, who are bound by obligations to provide a service, not the unions/drivers, who are now mere employees. When the railways were privatised, the unions and staff were basically cut out of operational decision-making (ie staffing levels, overtime rules, etc.) so they can not morally be held responsible for poor decision-making by FCC.
If the public wants drivers/staff to take notice of public opinion, they should have kept it a public service. The railways are now privately run, so we can't really expect a public service ethos, can we?
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RockyHopperShow
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 252
Location: West Sussex
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Posted Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:46 pm |
| rally200 wrote: | Be fair, steering one of those huge great trains and keeping it balanced on those tiny little rails must be bloody difficult,
and think about tube drivers, they have to do all that in the dark. |
Thanks for that, I didn't realise there was so little to my job - a job that 80% of applicants can't pass the aptitude test for, let alone see the course through to the passing-out stage. It is very easy to dissect an occupation to the bare bones, what's yours Rally200?
On the subject of the payrise itself, I can see where you are coming from in that it is a lot to expect in the current climate but it's a bit rich to expect to have a real-terms loss of pay/standard of living when the company is all too willing to shaft the paying customer with a massive fare-rise and not pass some of the (huge) profits on to the workforce (not just Drivers note) Anyway, aren't we coming out of recession?
Start Weight: 128 kilos (20.2 st) (April 17th 2009)
Current Weight:119 kilos (18.7 st) (June 18th 2009)
Target Weight: 92 kilos (14.5 st) (sometime mid-2010, hopefully sooner) |
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Rolf F
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
Posts: 626
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Posted Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:00 am |
| RockyHopperShow wrote: | | Anyway, aren't we coming out of recession? |
Of course not! Nothing's happened to change the problems we had before the recession. The economy is still built on thin air and any improvement can only really be a short term one before things crash properly. Anyone hoping for the recession to end now hasn't really learned anything - a recovery now in many ways would be a disaster.
As for the rail network - heartbreaking to compare the state of our railways compared to those of much of Europe but cheering to compare it to the hopelessness of organisations such as Amtrak or VIA Canada. I recently picked up the National Amtrak rail timetable, covering the whole of the USA - it's the size of Cycling Weekly. Trains are painfully slow and chronically overstaffed.......
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The Running Man
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 129
Location: Calne : Wiltshire
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Posted Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:46 pm |
And draggin us back off topic again I used to live in Hednesford. Played a season of rugby there too. Many many moons ago. Cracking rides through the Chase : and Clarkson is a complete kn0b : lovely place ....
Saying that we both worked at the Post & Mail in Brum and the (car) commute in down the motorway was consistently the worst I have ever experienced.
Litespeed Titanium Siena : Specialized Allez
Specialized Tri Cross : Specialized Rockhopper |
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prawny
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 1668
Location: Cannock Chase
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The Running Man
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 129
Location: Calne : Wiltshire
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prawny
Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 1668
Location: Cannock Chase
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The Running Man
Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 129
Location: Calne : Wiltshire
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Posted Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:32 pm |
Cue spooky music - how weird is that then!!
Happy days in Hednesford & Brum Prawny ...... we met some really nice friendly people before disappearing back down south.
I have to say though that riding through Wiltshire beats a wet night in Walsall every time!!
Yow all roight c0ck??!!
Litespeed Titanium Siena : Specialized Allez
Specialized Tri Cross : Specialized Rockhopper |
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rally200
Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 476
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Posted Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:45 pm |
[quote="RockyHopperShow"] | rally200 wrote: | Be fair, steering one of those huge great trains and keeping it balanced on those tiny little rails must be bloody difficult,
and think about tube drivers, they have to do all that in the dark. |
Thanks for that, I didn't realise there was so little to my job - a job that 80% of applicants can't pass the aptitude test for, let alone see the course through to the passing-out stage. It is very easy to dissect an occupation to the bare bones, what's yours Rally200?
quote]
sorry I thought that was so ludicrously reductive that no-one would take it seriously - I was thinking it was a sort of jibe at people who don't get that there's more to the job than it appears - on reflection I guess you are feeling under attack .
If you want to have a pop at my job feel free, I'm a surveyor - a bit dull, won't provide much material
Actually I'm not against the drivers - its the company's short termist approach (encouraged by the whole rail franchise system) that's created the situation where thaey have to rely on overtime, and lay themselves open to a withdrawal of goodwill.
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RockyHopperShow
Joined: 19 Aug 2008
Posts: 252
Location: West Sussex
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Posted Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:38 pm |
The funny thing is that Muir Lochhead, Chief Executive of FirstGroup has pocketed a £250k bonus.....for running the worst rail franchises that there are? You can bet your life his immediate underlings will trouser a hefty wedge too. Nice work if you can get it. Something to think about when you are sniffing some other poor passenger's (sorry, Customer's) armpit on a packed service to London bridge.
Start Weight: 128 kilos (20.2 st) (April 17th 2009)
Current Weight:119 kilos (18.7 st) (June 18th 2009)
Target Weight: 92 kilos (14.5 st) (sometime mid-2010, hopefully sooner) |
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redvee
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 4227
Location: Bristol
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Posted Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:32 pm |
Read a letter in todays Metro asking wether the cyclists who take up three seats with their bike pay three times the fare? 
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tebbit
Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 132
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Posted Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:11 pm |
There was an article in a railway magazine about the franchised rail system, with one company owning the track and others leasing the use of it, the conclusion was that it was a bloody stupid way to run a railway. The article was written about the Cheshire Lines Comittee in about 1904 and was used as an argument against the franchising system.
Bring back British Rail, and can we have Beechings head on a spike?
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