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RichN95
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Re: New to the Tour de France/Cycling? Click here

Postby RichN95 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 19:50 pm

TailWindHome wrote:
Rick Chasey wrote:Yes.

If in a normal finish a crash holds you up you are given the time of the group you are in before the crash.


Thats what I thought.

Back to my example

Wiggins is in the 100 riders behind the crash

Evans (cos BMC know what they're doing) is in the 50 riders ahead of the crash. With 1km Cancellara rips off the front. Evans jumps on his wheel. They work together and cross the line 10 seconds ahead of the other 48.

What time does Wiggins get?

What if there are multiple gaps in the 50 riders? How is that sorted?


This happened in stage 1 last year. Gilbert won, Evans was +3s and the first group was at +6s. Some riders who had been in that group had got dropped on the final slope. Everyone who was in the group at the time of the crash got the time +6s.

That stage also had the further complication that there had been an earlier crash outside the 3km and the riders in that crash then got held up further by the aftermath of later crash when they passed by, they but they still got their actual finishing time.
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RichN95
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Re: New to the Tour de France/Cycling? Click here

Postby RichN95 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 20:06 pm

Lichtblick wrote:When two teams are are the same hotel, does it cause problems? Two lots of soigneurs running about checking rooms, dumping bags in rooms, demanding feed for the riders and all the entourage including themselves.......as well as personality problems with two lots of Big Names in the same billet overnight?

Also, I imagine each team has some sort of team-talk with the management each evening/next morning, so they'd have to be kept apart?

Where do all the travelling media/press stay? In the same hotels? How about the crew who set up and take down all the road barriers on the moving Tour, where do they stay? I read somewhere that there are more than 3,000 vehicles on the road, moving through France. The logisitics alone would make (another) good book.


Point 1. All the teams have their own chefs and they'll take over the kitchen, so that's not a problem. Some of the staff will go on ahead during the day to sort things out. For example, several teams travel around France with their own mattresses, so the riders get the best sleep.

Point 2: I think meetings tend to take place on the bus.

Point 3: They stay all over the place. Every hotel within a fifty mile radius will be booked out. The journalists spend an awful lot of time in cars (Ned Boulting's book is a good read). For the barriers, there are two separate teams who alternate stage finishes, so they probably stay in the hotels others use the next day. The podium girls alternate between Cancellara and Sagan's rooms.
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tomwardill
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Re: New to the Tour de France/Cycling? Click here

Postby tomwardill » Wed Jul 04, 2012 20:30 pm

How is there still only 7 seconds between Cancellera and Wiggins when they've finished minutes apart? Do only some stages count towards the overall times?

First time watching any form of race, this thread and others has been a great help in understanding what's going on!

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RichN95
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Re: New to the Tour de France/Cycling? Click here

Postby RichN95 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 20:40 pm

tomwardill wrote:How is there still only 7 seconds between Cancellera and Wiggins when they've finished minutes apart? Do only some stages count towards the overall times?

All stages count towards the overall time, but Cancellara and Wiggins haven't really finished minutes apart.

Two points to note here:
1. Whenever a bunch of riders, whether 2 or 198, come in together, they all get the same time. This is to prevent even more chaos at the finish.
2. If there is a crash in the last 3km, anyone effected by the crash is given the same time as the group that they were in at the time of the crash. This is because no-one wants to see the Tour decided by crashes. Generally, anyone who was in the group where the crash was is deemed to be effected by the crash (even if they probably weren't). This is why you saw Wiggins, who has been caught behind crashes in the last two days, sauntering in and still getting the same time as Cancellara.
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afx237vi
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Re: New to the Tour de France/Cycling? Click here

Postby afx237vi » Wed Jul 04, 2012 20:46 pm

RichN95 wrote:
Lichtblick wrote:When two teams are are the same hotel, does it cause problems? Two lots of soigneurs running about checking rooms, dumping bags in rooms, demanding feed for the riders and all the entourage including themselves.......as well as personality problems with two lots of Big Names in the same billet overnight?

Also, I imagine each team has some sort of team-talk with the management each evening/next morning, so they'd have to be kept apart?

Where do all the travelling media/press stay? In the same hotels? How about the crew who set up and take down all the road barriers on the moving Tour, where do they stay? I read somewhere that there are more than 3,000 vehicles on the road, moving through France. The logisitics alone would make (another) good book.


Point 1. All the teams have their own chefs and they'll take over the kitchen, so that's not a problem. Some of the staff will go on ahead during the day to sort things out. For example, several teams travel around France with their own mattresses, so the riders get the best sleep.


Saxo Bank, and I guess some other teams, have their own catering truck where they prepare meals. The Saxo chef has her own blog here, with pictures:

http://dailystews.wordpress.com/2012/06 ... ank-tdf12/

They eat some seriously fancy stuff!

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TakeTheHighRoad
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Postby TakeTheHighRoad » Wed Jul 04, 2012 21:04 pm

TailWindHome wrote:
Rick Chasey wrote:Yes.

If in a normal finish a crash holds you up you are given the time of the group you are in before the crash.


Thats what I thought.

Back to my example

Wiggins is in the 100 riders behind the crash

Evans (cos BMC know what they're doing) is in the 50 riders ahead of the crash. With 1km Cancellara rips off the front. Evans jumps on his wheel. They work together and cross the line 10 seconds ahead of the other 48.

What time does Wiggins get?

What if there are multiple gaps in the 50 riders? How is that sorted?


With this, let's say Canc and Evans finish in 6 hours, and the rest take 6 hours 10 seconds.

Wiggins would get 6 hours and 10 seconds added to his time.

However there were numerous splits on the run in today, and everyone got the same time. However, I think it could have been argued they were all caused as a result of the crash.
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Lichtblick
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Postby Lichtblick » Wed Jul 04, 2012 21:18 pm

Point 1. All the teams have their own chefs and they'll take over the kitchen, so that's not a problem.


But if there are two teams in one hotel?

It looks as if any hotel booked by a Tour team is unavailable to ordinary guests, then? <joke>

The food pictures on that blog, only look like enough food for one rider. Especially someone really well built like today's stage winner (compared to other whippet-thin riders).

Thank you for all the information, I appreciate the time taken to respond.

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RichN95
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Re: New to the Tour de France/Cycling? Click here

Postby RichN95 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 21:23 pm

Lichtblick wrote:
Point 1. All the teams have their own chefs and they'll take over the kitchen, so that's not a problem.


But if there are two teams in one hotel?


Half the kitchen each. Sort of like Masterchef. They usually share, so they all know the drill.
Here's a video about the Tour chefs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpImRgIThjo&feature=plcp
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tomwardill
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Re: New to the Tour de France/Cycling? Click here

Postby tomwardill » Thu Jul 05, 2012 08:10 am

RichN95 wrote: << Useful explanation here >>



Aha, that explains that. Thanks!

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Postby Jonny_Trousers » Sun Jul 08, 2012 13:03 pm

Do most teams who are in with a shout of having the race leader carry blingy yellow versions of their gear just-in-case? Cadel had a yellow frame for a while last year and I have a vague memory that Tommy Voeckler did too. If so, what happens to all the unused stuff? eBay?

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Postby Ms Tree » Sun Jul 08, 2012 19:20 pm

There was an interesting segment on Eurosport the other day with the Sky nutritionist showing the food and drink they use. Both made food such as rice cake and gels and bars. Although I did wonder when he made roll with cheese and banana why he didn't mash the banana. I thought it might make the roll smaller. (From my yoof mashed banana with top-of-the-milk and soft brown sugar. Yum).
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ddraver
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Postby ddraver » Tue Jul 10, 2012 07:18 am

Jonny_Trousers wrote:Do most teams who are in with a shout of having the race leader carry blingy yellow versions of their gear just-in-case? Cadel had a yellow frame for a while last year and I have a vague memory that Tommy Voeckler did too. If so, what happens to all the unused stuff? eBay?


Some do, some don't - I can't remember exactly who it was, but it was someone with a very genuine shot at yellow in the first week but they would nt let the team bring (or I think even make) a yellow bike for them so they did nt get complacent.

Last Year when Tommy Voeckler got into yellow, Colnago made up a yellow frame overnight for him! Obviously it's quite a big deal for the bike manufacturer.

Most of the bikes belong to the team rather than the rider, so they all go back to the manufacturer or get given away in competiotions or auctioned for charity or the like...
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Lichtblick
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Postby Lichtblick » Tue Jul 10, 2012 14:18 pm

Stripes on jersey sleeves. Can anyone explain why some riders have striped sleeve edges?

Wiggins without striped 'cuffs'

Image

Wiggins with striped 'cuffs'

Image

Some other riders have these stripes too. Does it signify team leader?

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Rick Chasey
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Postby Rick Chasey » Tue Jul 10, 2012 14:23 pm

Lichtblick wrote:Stripes on jersey sleeves. Can anyone explain why some riders have striped sleeve edges?

Wiggins without striped 'cuffs'

Image

Wiggins with striped 'cuffs'

Image

Some other riders have these stripes too. Does it signify team leader?


The stripes are there to signify that Wiggins was once British national champion.

The first picture must have been before he was national champion (or they forgot to put it on)./

Depending on the flag, depends on the colours.

Take Hincape, former US national champion.

Image

Ex World champions get rainbow sleeve ends.

Image

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ddraver
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Postby ddraver » Tue Jul 10, 2012 14:49 pm

Now how did I know you post a Pic of Tommeke Rick! ;)
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Lichtblick
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Postby Lichtblick » Tue Jul 10, 2012 16:51 pm

Thank you Rick. One of the many amazing things about the TdF is that I learn something new every year.

Here's Hincapie at this year's Tour:

Image

with USA flag sleeve ends.

Supposing a rider was once national champion AND world champion, would they wear both sleeve ends?

Why do team RadioShack all have one yellow sleeve end? Don't tell me it's something to do with LA. If so, it would be easy enough to cut all those sleeve ends off. :roll: No wonder poor ol' Frank looks so unhappy:

Image

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Rick Chasey
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Postby Rick Chasey » Tue Jul 10, 2012 16:56 pm

Worlds trumps nationals, so you just keep the rainbow.

Frank is wearing the national jersey there I believe, so no need for the rings.

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Lichtblick
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Postby Lichtblick » Tue Jul 10, 2012 17:05 pm

I was away and therefore missed it: did Cavendish ride the TT in normal Sky kit yesterday, not the rainbow, because Tony Martin is world TT champion?

Thank you again for polite and helpful responses.

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afx237vi
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Postby afx237vi » Tue Jul 10, 2012 18:04 pm

Yeah that's right, you can only wear the world / national championships kit in the discipline you won.

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RichN95
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Re: New to the Tour de France/Cycling? Click here

Postby RichN95 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 18:34 pm

Lichtblick wrote:
Why do team RadioShack all have one yellow sleeve end? Don't tell me it's something to do with LA. If so, it would be easy enough to cut all those sleeve ends off. :roll: No wonder poor ol' Frank looks so unhappy:


It is to do with Armstrong - Livestrong are a team sponsor.
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