2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

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Blazing Saddles
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby Blazing Saddles » Mon Oct 08, 2012 07:34 am

mike6 wrote:Not getting at you, just my personal take, but I thought the Vuelta was a joke. Designed purely to get a Spanish winner. Lots of very steep uphill finishes. Even the TT was designed with a big climb to favour the Spanish climbers.

At least the 2012 Tour had something for everyone. Mountains, TTs, sprints, rolling stages. Had to be an all rounder to win it.

As for that cheat Contador, I noticed in the Vuelta that now he, probably, has to ride clean, he can no longer maintain his attacks. He seems to run out of steam after about 20 seconds, then the others ride back up to him.

If the 2013 Tour is loaded with a stupid amount of mountains it will just slow the whole event because the days of the EPO climbers steaming up the climbs like they don't exist are, hopefully gone for good.


So Contador is a cheat, but probably now he's not cheating. He's also not an all rounder. Rrrright.

Anyhow, as far as the Alpe finish, I thought that was from twitter land for 2014?

As the 2013 route takes shape, it is beginning to look less and less mountain heavy and more and more like your bog standard TDF fare:

# date départ arrivée remarques
1 sa. 29 juin 2013 Porto-Vecchio Bastia 200 km
2 di. 30 juin 2013 Bastia Ajaccio 155 km
3 lu. 1er juillet 2013 Ajaccio Calvi 145 km
4 ma. 2 juillet 2013 Nice Nice ~20 km - CLM par équipes
5 me. 3 juillet 2013 Cagnes-sur-Mer Marseille
6 je. 4 juillet 2013 Aix-en-Provence Montpellier
7 ve. 5 juillet 2013 Montpellier Albi
8 sa. 6 juillet 2013 Castres Ax-3 Domaines
9 di. 7 juillet 2013 Saint-Girons Bagnères-de-Bigorre

R1 lu. 8 juillet 2013 repos à Nantes
10 ma. 9 juillet 2013 Nantes Saint-Malo
11 me. 10 juillet 2013 Avranches Mont Saint-Michel CLM individuel
12 je. 11 juillet 2013 Fougères Tours
13 ve. 12 juillet 2013 Tours Saint-Amand-Montrond
14 sa. 13 juillet 2013 Saint-Pourçain-sur-Sioule Lyon
15 di. 14 juillet 2013 Lyon (Givors) Mont-Ventoux
R2 lu. 15 juillet 2013 repos dans le Vaucluse (Orange & Avignon)
16 ma. 16 juillet 2013 Vaison-la-Romaine Gap
17 me. 17 juillet 2013 Embrun Chorges CLM individuel
18 je. 18 juillet 2013 Gap Alpe d'Huez (double ascension)
19 ve. 19 juillet 2013 Bourg d'Oisans Le Grand Bornand

20 sa. 20 juillet 2013 Annecy ??? ???
21 di. 21 juillet 2013 Montgeron ou Versailles Paris Champs-Elysées
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

pat1cp
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby pat1cp » Mon Oct 08, 2012 09:46 am

frenchfighter wrote:Corsica is interesting. There are some tough climbs and lovely scenery there.


and loads of dog sh!t everywhere when I visited a couple of years ago.

mike6
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby mike6 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 19:50 pm

Blazing Saddles wrote:
mike6 wrote:Not getting at you, just my personal take, but I thought the Vuelta was a joke. Designed purely to get a Spanish winner. Lots of very steep uphill finishes. Even the TT was designed with a big climb to favour the Spanish climbers.

At least the 2012 Tour had something for everyone. Mountains, TTs, sprints, rolling stages. Had to be an all rounder to win it.

As for that cheat Contador, I noticed in the Vuelta that now he, probably, has to ride clean, he can no longer maintain his attacks. He seems to run out of steam after about 20 seconds, then the others ride back up to him.

If the 2013 Tour is loaded with a stupid amount of mountains it will just slow the whole event because the days of the EPO climbers steaming up the climbs like they don't exist are, hopefully gone for good.


So Contador is a cheat, but probably now he's not cheating. He's also not an all rounder. Rrrright.

Anyhow, as far as the Alpe finish, I thought that was from twitter land for 2014?

As the 2013 route takes shape, it is beginning to look less and less mountain heavy and more and more like your bog standard TDF fare:

# date départ arrivée remarques
1 sa. 29 juin 2013 Porto-Vecchio Bastia 200 km
2 di. 30 juin 2013 Bastia Ajaccio 155 km
3 lu. 1er juillet 2013 Ajaccio Calvi 145 km
4 ma. 2 juillet 2013 Nice Nice ~20 km - CLM par équipes
5 me. 3 juillet 2013 Cagnes-sur-Mer Marseille
6 je. 4 juillet 2013 Aix-en-Provence Montpellier
7 ve. 5 juillet 2013 Montpellier Albi
8 sa. 6 juillet 2013 Castres Ax-3 Domaines
9 di. 7 juillet 2013 Saint-Girons Bagnères-de-Bigorre

R1 lu. 8 juillet 2013 repos à Nantes
10 ma. 9 juillet 2013 Nantes Saint-Malo
11 me. 10 juillet 2013 Avranches Mont Saint-Michel CLM individuel
12 je. 11 juillet 2013 Fougères Tours
13 ve. 12 juillet 2013 Tours Saint-Amand-Montrond
14 sa. 13 juillet 2013 Saint-Pourçain-sur-Sioule Lyon
15 di. 14 juillet 2013 Lyon (Givors) Mont-Ventoux
R2 lu. 15 juillet 2013 repos dans le Vaucluse (Orange & Avignon)
16 ma. 16 juillet 2013 Vaison-la-Romaine Gap
17 me. 17 juillet 2013 Embrun Chorges CLM individuel
18 je. 18 juillet 2013 Gap Alpe d'Huez (double ascension)
19 ve. 19 juillet 2013 Bourg d'Oisans Le Grand Bornand

20 sa. 20 juillet 2013 Annecy ??? ???
21 di. 21 juillet 2013 Montgeron ou Versailles Paris Champs-Elysées


Yes, well done, you read what I said almost correctly. Now Contador is "probably" not cheating he cant maintain his attacks on the steep climbs. I did not say Contador was not an all rounder, I said the Vuelta was designed to produce a Spanish winner.
Also, we will see how good Contador is next year when It is more difficult for him to cheat.

Vino'sGhost
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby Vino'sGhost » Mon Oct 08, 2012 20:49 pm

:roll:

DavidCr
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby DavidCr » Tue Oct 09, 2012 07:47 am

FJS wrote:
durhamwasp wrote:Big rumour now that the tour will finish on the Alpe! Would be an unbelievable stage and finish! :)

That's all based on a speculative newspaper article published 9 months ago somebody decided to retweet - not true

And another thing ... the 2013Alpe d'Huez duathlon is to be held on the same day as the last stage of the Tour.

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frenchfighter
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby frenchfighter » Tue Oct 09, 2012 08:00 am

They need to get some creativity. L'Aple de Huez is not the best thing in the World.
Contador is the Greatest

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greasedscotsman
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby greasedscotsman » Tue Oct 09, 2012 08:15 am

frenchfighter wrote:They need to get some creativity. L'Aple de Huez is not the best thing in the World.


What would you suggest?

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frenchfighter
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby frenchfighter » Tue Oct 09, 2012 08:26 am

I haven't cared to think about it much. There are 'specialists' who have been in the sport for decades who should be able to sort this out and know French terrain and possibilities. But everytime the l'Alpe is brought out people seem to think it really special.

I'm sure if I thought about it I could suggest a few good parcours.
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Gazzetta67
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby Gazzetta67 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 08:39 am

frenchfighter wrote:I haven't cared to think about it much. There are 'specialists' who have been in the sport for decades who should be able to sort this out and know French terrain and possibilities. But everytime the l'Alpe is brought out people seem to think it really special.

I'm sure if I thought about it I could suggest a few good parcours.


+1 If they are going to use Alpe d Huez then i hope they barrier it off than the usual last 2kms, There are too many halfwits and sozzled fans running alongside...hey look at me am on camera. Not holding my breath for next year's tour as this year was most boring one ever with team radio controlled suddenly having ALL their team on form at the same time :roll:

hammerite
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby hammerite » Tue Oct 09, 2012 08:47 am

DavidCr wrote:And another thing ... the 2013Alpe d'Huez duathlon is to be held on the same day as the last stage of the Tour.


Very good point.

Frenchie I'm not sure it's the climb itself that makes it special, more the fact that people like going there to watch the race - including the beered up Dutch that Gazetta refers to. Lots of people are saying twice up Alpe is too hard, yet I'd say it's not as hard as when they practically use the Marmotte route for the race.

I don't think it matters too much about alternative terrain available, AdH are prepared to stick up the money to host a finish every couple of years, logistically it's a well rehearsed routine, I guess for ASO it wins on all accounts.

Richmond Racer
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby Richmond Racer » Tue Oct 09, 2012 08:51 am

hammerite wrote:
DavidCr wrote:And another thing ... the 2013Alpe d'Huez duathlon is to be held on the same day as the last stage of the Tour.


Very good point.

Frenchie I'm not sure it's the climb itself that makes it special, more the fact that people like going there to watch the race - including the beered up Dutch that Gazetta refers to. Lots of people are saying twice up Alpe is too hard, yet I'd say it's not as hard as when they practically use the Marmotte route for the race.

I don't think it matters too much about alternative terrain available, AdH are prepared to stick up the money to host a finish every couple of years, logistically it's a well rehearsed routine, I guess for ASO it wins on all accounts.



As keeps on being repeated...next year is NOT finishing on the Alpe...its a recycled interwebz rumour from months ago

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greasedscotsman
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby greasedscotsman » Tue Oct 09, 2012 09:06 am

Gazzetta67 wrote:+1 If they are going to use Alpe d Huez then i hope they barrier it off than the usual last 2kms, There are too many halfwits and sozzled fans running alongside...hey look at me am on camera.


If you move the barriers down to 4km from the finish, the fans who want to run alongside or wave to the camera will move down to 5km. They might be sozzled, but they aren't stupid.

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greasedscotsman
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby greasedscotsman » Tue Oct 09, 2012 09:21 am

hammerite wrote:I don't think it matters too much about alternative terrain available, AdH are prepared to stick up the money to host a finish every couple of years, logistically it's a well rehearsed routine, I guess for ASO it wins on all accounts.


I think this is it really. If the resort is prepared to stump up the cash, then it will keep coming back. It would be nice to see Les Deux Alps used again, but then I have no problem with them using the Alpe. Haven't been there for the Tour since 2008, quite fancy another trip there!

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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby Tom Butcher » Tue Oct 09, 2012 09:27 am

Maybe they think if they are going to finish on the Alpe then they'll need to barrier off a lot of it - and if they are going to do that then they may as well use it twice and make it worthwhile. Personally I think it's a good idea - a bit of a gimmick but nothing wrong with that - I'd like to see them do multiple ascents of Ventoux too from different sides but maybe they think that would make the descents dangerously congested - they'd have to make sure no vehicles were parked there and how else would you get up there to watch - it's a fair walk.
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frenchfighter
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby frenchfighter » Tue Oct 09, 2012 09:46 am

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Dave_1
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby Dave_1 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:01 am

Agree with Gazetta . Barrier more of the road and control traffic and fans in the days leading up to it perhaps? The Alpe is interesting as can as the times might say something about cleanliness of TDF/ the sport in that year.

Barriers appeared much further down Alp D'huez the year after this chaos at 15 minutes 20 seconds which poss cost the rider the stage....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429nLMSYqCQ

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greasedscotsman
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby greasedscotsman » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:05 am

Dave_1 wrote:Agree with Gazetta . Barrier more of the road and control traffic and fans in the days elading up to it perhaps?


But it won't make any difference. They barriered at least half the climb for the TT in 2004 and there were still problems. And traffic control won't make any difference either. The vast majority park away from the climb and either walk or cycle onto it. Would it be better if there were no fans on the climb at all?

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Dave_1
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby Dave_1 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:10 am

greasedscotsman wrote:
Dave_1 wrote:Agree with Gazetta . Barrier more of the road and control traffic and fans in the days elading up to it perhaps?


But it won't make any difference. They barriered at least half the climb for the TT in 2004 and there were still problems. And traffic control won't make any difference either. The vast majority park away from the climb and either walk or cycle onto it. Would it be better if there were no fans on the climb at all?


Well, no fans on the climb at all would lead to unrest maybe ..would fans would climb their way in from hill sides to watch. Perhaps they should start controlling the road traffic in the days leading up..any non-registered to Alpe' D'huez addresses, or non-commercial traffic and camper vans, be stopped from entering the climb from either end and then control the crowds which pour in from both ends in the 24hrs up to the race? Just thinking greasedscotsman...how else can they keep the Alpe in the race?

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frenchfighter
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby frenchfighter » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:12 am

Dave_1 wrote:Agree with Gazetta . Barrier more of the road and control traffic and fans in the days leading up to it perhaps? The Alpe is interesting as can as the times might say something about cleanliness of TDF/ the sport in that year.

Barriers appeared much further down Alp D'huez the year after this chaos at 15 minutes 20 seconds which poss cost the rider the stage....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429nLMSYqCQ


Amount of motos in there is ridiculous and totally unsafe. It still surprises me that these motos are allowed to ride so close and fast to fans. They, along with the stupid cars totally dampen any experience I have had beside the road live.
Contador is the Greatest

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Dave_1
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Re: 2013 TdF Mountain Heavy?

Postby Dave_1 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:21 am

frenchfighter wrote:
Dave_1 wrote:Agree with Gazetta . Barrier more of the road and control traffic and fans in the days leading up to it perhaps? The Alpe is interesting as can as the times might say something about cleanliness of TDF/ the sport in that year.

Barriers appeared much further down Alp D'huez the year after this chaos at 15 minutes 20 seconds which poss cost the rider the stage....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=429nLMSYqCQ


Amount of motos in there is ridiculous and totally unsafe. It still surprises me that these motos are allowed to ride so close and fast to fans. They, along with the stupid cars totally dampen any experience I have had beside the road live.



Yes, it's dangerous for fans and some have been killed by TDF traffice. Is it time for some sort of ticketing to get onto the Alpe? How to make it safer?


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