The demise of Women's cycling

Talk about competitive road cycling in all its forms
GSVBagpuss
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby GSVBagpuss » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:59 am

Dragging this back on topic :)

Two female (and medal winning) cyclists on the Cycle Show tonight. And going back a page or so, someone suggesting running the womens TdF before the Men's would double the cost is nonsense. It's not free but the roads are already closed, the police and journalists are already there etc.

Team Sky are missing a trick; we had some pretty visible riders in the Olympic race (I thought Pooley was outstanding) and it would cost relatively little. Maybe Dave B just thinks its a step too far with trying to get the mens GTs next year, given he likes to get into all the details?

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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby Richmond Racer » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:18 pm

GSVBagpuss wrote:Dragging this back on topic :)

Two female (and medal winning) cyclists on the Cycle Show tonight. And going back a page or so, someone suggesting running the womens TdF before the Men's would double the cost is nonsense. It's not free but the roads are already closed, the police and journalists are already there etc.

Team Sky are missing a trick; we had some pretty visible riders in the Olympic race (I thought Pooley was outstanding) and it would cost relatively little. Maybe Dave B just thinks its a step too far with trying to get the mens GTs next year, given he likes to get into all the details?



As Inky's said, SKY as sponsor have got to see what's in it for them, even for the tiny cost of 500k that's been bandied around for a pro womens team.

GSVBagpuss
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby GSVBagpuss » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:54 pm

Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?

Pendleton was well known in the glossy mags my wife gets; Trott maybe? I gues she's staying track for a while though?

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Rick Chasey
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby Rick Chasey » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:56 pm

GSVBagpuss wrote:Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?

Pendleton was well known in the glossy mags my wife gets; Trott maybe? I gues she's staying track for a while though?


Brits have a very good team and very good riders, more or less 2nd to Vos, but then again, she's the Eddy Merckx of women's cycling.

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inkyfingers
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby inkyfingers » Mon Aug 20, 2012 13:00 pm

GSVBagpuss wrote:Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?



Yes.

Armitstead is growing into a very serious one dayer/sprinter.

Pooley is one of the best climbers in the world.

Cooke was the number one female rider in the world, and is still only 29.

There is one thing stopping us dominating womens road racing and that is Marianne Vos.
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davidof
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby davidof » Mon Aug 20, 2012 15:43 pm

greasedscotsman wrote:
What would you do to try and avoid this sort of thing happening? Some ideas on Cyclingnews, are these good or bad?


Get rid of Pat McQuaid would be a start. He's been in the job long past his sell by date.

This year I watched a lot of women's races on TV. Tour of Flanders, Trophee Afredo Binda, Ghent, Giro Donne. There is a lack of strength in depth in the women's peloton but the top 15-20 riders are very good. Given a choice between watching Sky blocking all day on the front and admiring riders like Carol Anne Kanuel, Marion Rousse, Emily Collins, Joëlle Numainville, Julie Krasniak and of course our own Lizzie and Emma etc. I'd sooner be following this:

http://bikechicks.net/2012/01/13/joelle-en-route-for-london/

There was a fantastic 4th stage (I think) in the Donne where Vos chases down a break with Pooley on a mountain stage. Reminded me a bit of men's racing back in the 70s. Not as fast as now but some exciting breaks and chases.

I wonder whether Pooley will race next year given all this uncertainty. Lizzie will be picked up, for sure but Emma has her doctorate to finish and that may take precedence. It would be a shame if she doesn't get the backing she needs at this stage in her career. These kind of issues have stunted Nicole Cooke's career.

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knedlicky
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby knedlicky » Mon Aug 20, 2012 17:19 pm

inkyfingers wrote:
GSVBagpuss wrote:Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?
Yes.

I’d also answer Bagpuss's question with 'yes', imo Pooley. She's already won the Grande Boucle Féminine, and twice come close to winning the Giro Donne, as well as having won smaller tours and been the TT World Champion.
But that Bagpuss asked the question in the first place shows how newsworthy her achievements were judged by the media, and I'm not sure that will ever change much (unless perhaps you're called Trott).

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knedlicky
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby knedlicky » Mon Aug 20, 2012 17:25 pm

Rick Chasey wrote:Brits have a very good team and very good riders, more or less 2nd to Vos, but then again, she's the Eddy Merckx of women's cycling.
inkyfingers wrote:
GSVBagpuss wrote:Ok, does the UK have a ladies equivalent of Wiggins i.e someone who can win a big enough event that the news will want to cover it?
There is one thing stopping us dominating womens road racing and that is Marianne Vos.

I think you, Rick and Inky, overrate the Brit girls (and don’t give due credit to the other Dutch girls).
In the World Cup rankings, best-placed Brit is Pooley, but only in 22nd place. Laws, Martin, Trott, Roe, Cooke and Armitstead (in that order) are to be found between 42nd and 101st. Other names, e.g. Houvenaghel, Bailey, Harris, Garner, etc are completely missing. The Dutch have 6 in the top 19.

Admittedly, if the Brits rarely enter the World Cup races (which is true for some) then they don’t pick up points (Trott only did the World Cup TTT), but even if you look at non-World Cup events, you don’t find Brits on the podium that often.
This year Pooley has had 4 podium placings (plus two GC podiums), Laws also 4 podiums, Bailey and Armitstead each 2 podiums, and Houvenaghel 1 podium. In total that's not a lot compared to the Dutch and Americans, and Laws, Houvenaghel and Bailey won’t be there much longer (all 35-40 years old), and (like davidof mentions above) maybe Pooley also not.
Roe and Garner may be great prospects, but that was believed of Martin a couple of years ago. I’d say there’s still a way to go before the Brit girls can match the Dutch, Americans, and some other nations.

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frenchfighter
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby frenchfighter » Tue Sep 04, 2012 20:04 pm

Good comments from Pooley

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12792 ... cling.aspx

She says in there about Sky and a woman's team. They should be totally ashamed of themveselves that they don't have one and it should be a priority to set it up. That is if they care about cycling and not about advertising...I'd veer on the later.
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby mroli » Tue Sep 04, 2012 20:18 pm

To be fair FF - Sky do care about cycling - they have a very good "in house" club, lots of perks, and are big advocates of cycling to work and leisure cycling. Am not a big fan of the brand, but to accuse them of not caring about cycling is v wide of the mark imho

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frenchfighter
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby frenchfighter » Tue Sep 04, 2012 20:31 pm

Yeah a little harsh I know. I have no idea about the club you refer to - what is it?
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inkyfingers
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby inkyfingers » Tue Sep 04, 2012 20:38 pm

frenchfighter wrote:Good comments from Pooley

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12792 ... cling.aspx

She says in there about Sky and a woman's team. They should be totally ashamed of themveselves that they don't have one and it should be a priority to set it up. That is if they care about cycling and not about advertising...I'd veer on the later.


I would also like to see Sky set up a women's team, but I think it's unfair to single them out for not having done so. They have done more women's cycling than most sponsors, having been sponsoring mens and women's teams on the track for some years now.

As i've said before, it's not realistic to expect sponsors to just queue up to pour money into loss-making ventures. The whole system needs looking at to try and make women's cycling more attractive to sponsors and fans, until that happens sponsors won't be interested.
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inkyfingers
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby inkyfingers » Tue Sep 04, 2012 20:39 pm

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dsoutar
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby dsoutar » Tue Sep 04, 2012 20:39 pm

FF might have been a little harsh but it's a very valid point. They should be looking to widen the base of all cycling and surely BC should be leaning on them (or at least pointing them in the right direction) regarding this.

There are more women cycling but it's only noticeable because a few years ago there were hardly any. There's momentum there and it should be built on. Clubs too should be looking to capitalise on this

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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby Richmond Racer » Tue Sep 04, 2012 21:15 pm

Emma P wants Sky to set up a womens team, but funnily enough Lizzie Armitstead doesnt, according to a couple of interviews she's given since her interviews straight after the Lympix. Seems to be some personal issue behind this, maybe times when she's been at odds with BC/GB.

oneof1982
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby oneof1982 » Tue Sep 04, 2012 22:36 pm

Worth noting that Britain has Junior World and European Road Race Champion Lucy Garner.
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/gbcycl ... champion-0

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frenchfighter
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby frenchfighter » Wed Sep 05, 2012 06:13 am

Inky, SKY have ridiculous funds so yes, the onus is on them a lot more than other sponsors. But also yes, the system needs to be improved. Tv coverage would be a good start.
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inkyfingers
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby inkyfingers » Wed Sep 05, 2012 07:28 am

frenchfighter wrote:Inky, SKY have ridiculous funds so yes, the onus is on them a lot more than other sponsors. But also yes, the system needs to be improved. Tv coverage would be a good start.


Frenchie, I seem to remember you work in the city so i'd have thought you'd appreciate that companies have to answer to their shareholders as to how they allocate their funds. Sky obviously feel that sponsoring a mens team gives them a benefit (whether it be a short term economic one or a long term brand building one, or maybe both). Considering how much Sky have invested in cycling at all levels except for women's road racing they obviously feel like it's a dead duck at the moment.

Just expecting people to give money away just because they have a lot is the sort of thing you'd hear in a student politics discussion.

There is a danger that by attacking sponsors for what they are not doing (when they are clearly doing some good things) risks making them think twice about investing in the sport in future. I'm not a particular fan of Sky as a company, but without them and a few other sponsors who have shown a similar long term commitment to the sport, cycling would be in even more trouble than it's already in.
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Rick Chasey
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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby Rick Chasey » Wed Sep 05, 2012 07:44 am

inkyfingers wrote:
Frenchie, I seem to remember you work in the city so i'd have thought you'd appreciate that companies have to answer to their shareholders as to how they allocate their funds. Sky obviously feel that sponsoring a mens team gives them a benefit (whether it be a short term economic one or a long term brand building one, or maybe both). Considering how much Sky have invested in cycling at all levels except for women's road racing they obviously feel like it's a dead duck at the moment.
.


He's a prop trader. They don't think about anything other than whether they're up or down and by how much. ;)

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Re: The demise of Women's cycling

Postby disgruntledgoat » Wed Sep 05, 2012 09:55 am

frenchfighter wrote:Yeah a little harsh I know. I have no idea about the club you refer to - what is it?


People who work there, at all levels, get generous discounts on clothing, bikes and equipment. I live about 30 miles from the call centre in Irvine and it's quite usual to see groups of folks clad head to toe in Sky gear on Pinarellos.

Also, there were a group of about 15 doing the Flanders sportive when I was there last year, they said the company had paid their entries and contributed to the minibus to get them over there.
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