Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

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Richmond Racer
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Richmond Racer » Tue Feb 12, 2013 14:51 pm

and now we will have a situation where everyone thinks they know all about the bio passport, understand it and how it works....

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mr_poll
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby mr_poll » Tue Feb 12, 2013 15:26 pm

TimB34 wrote:In the cyclingnews.com story : http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-rel ... ing-claims
The UCI are quoted:
“In their responses (in the case of Dr Ashenden, on May 5 2009), it is interesting to note that of the three experts, Dr Ashenden was the only one to have defined this profile as “normal” without making any other remarks, comments or reservations (of the eight profiles submitted, Dr Ashenden was the expert who most often used the definition “normal” with no further comment).”


The UCI appear to be saying that two out of three experts defined Armstrong's blood profile as something other than normal.

But they didn't take any subsequent action? I must be missing something.


Re-read the quote - Ashenden was the only one to define the profile as normal without making any other remarks - nothing here to say they didn't pass the profile as normal too but made remarks. Admittedly it would be nice to know what those remarks were but the UCI are not saying that 2/3 experts defined LA's blood profile as something other than normal.

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rob churchill
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby rob churchill » Tue Feb 12, 2013 16:06 pm

Richmond Racer wrote:
iainf72 wrote:It seems at the Walsh / Kimmage rallys for the faithful last night, they said that Steve "Inner Chimp" Peters evaluated Armstrong as a psychopath when watching him on Oprah

Which is helpful.



:) Off to Rampton then....


Peters is a Consultant forensic psychiatrist, he does sports psychology as a sideline. Psychopaths are actually much more his field than cyclists.
I have a policy of only posting comment on the internet under my real name. This is to moderate my natural instinct to flame your fatuous, ill-informed, irrational, credulous, bigoted, semi-literate opinions to carbon, you knuckle-dragging f***wits.

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rob churchill
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby rob churchill » Tue Feb 12, 2013 16:29 pm

Richmond Racer wrote:and now we will have a situation where everyone thinks they know all about the bio passport, understand it and how it works....


Not sure about that. Have a look at Mad_Malx's link in the Frank Schleck thread. I know enough to be able to get the gist of it, but I sure as hell don't have the expertise to put it into practice. You'd need a doctor for that, but then a doctor would have no problem accessing this kind of info.
I have a policy of only posting comment on the internet under my real name. This is to moderate my natural instinct to flame your fatuous, ill-informed, irrational, credulous, bigoted, semi-literate opinions to carbon, you knuckle-dragging f***wits.

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ThomThom
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby ThomThom » Tue Feb 12, 2013 17:20 pm

Richmond Racer wrote:and now we will have a situation where everyone thinks they know all about the bio passport, understand it and how it works....


But, Rich, didn't you have an opinion about it yourself just yesterday when the article was posted..?

Richmond Racer
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Richmond Racer » Tue Feb 12, 2013 17:24 pm

ThomThom wrote:
Richmond Racer wrote:and now we will have a situation where everyone thinks they know all about the bio passport, understand it and how it works....


But, Rich, didn't you have an opinion about it yourself just yesterday when the article was posted..?



Nope. Opinion on Ashenden himself.

Cumulonimbus
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Cumulonimbus » Wed Feb 13, 2013 00:13 am

Appears that Armstrong's data from the tour in 2009 or 2010 for that matter was not passed to anyone for analysis. The program which decides if a sample warrants further examination did not flag it up. Raises the question of why it wasnt flagged when other people have said they believe it shows he was doping. Also, assuming the profile was suspicious, it raises the question of whether anyone else has slipped through the system.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13931 ... -2009.aspx

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Crankbrother
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Crankbrother » Wed Feb 13, 2013 07:56 am

iainf72 wrote:It seems at the Walsh / Kimmage rallys for the faithful last night, they said that Steve "Inner Chimp" Peters evaluated Armstrong as a psychopath when watching him on Oprah

Which is helpful.


Well, going by the actual definition a stressed mother driving at 25mph in a 20 zone in order to get her kids to school on time is also a psychopath ...

Or, for example, anyone using this site http://www.cyclingtorrents.nl/login.php?returnto=%2F

At least Steve Peters get's a new conservatory ...

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ddraver
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby ddraver » Wed Feb 13, 2013 08:16 am

Starting to think.this bio-passport is such an inexact science it make geology look about as certain as astrophysics! Something else that you to be so blatently doping that you may as well have an epo syringe hanging out of your arm
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iainf72
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby iainf72 » Wed Feb 13, 2013 08:41 am

Cumulonimbus wrote:Appears that Armstrong's data from the tour in 2009 or 2010 for that matter was not passed to anyone for analysis. The program which decides if a sample warrants further examination did not flag it up. Raises the question of why it wasnt flagged when other people have said they believe it shows he was doping. Also, assuming the profile was suspicious, it raises the question of whether anyone else has slipped through the system.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13931 ... -2009.aspx


Surely if Ashenden is going to bleat on about things, he should be bleating on about the statistical analysis software and why it didn't work. I'd hate to think it was because he had something to do with defining the parameters.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

Richmond Racer
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Richmond Racer » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:15 am

ddraver wrote:Starting to think.this bio-passport is such an inexact science it make geology look about as certain as astrophysics! Something else that you to be so blatently doping that you may as well have an epo syringe hanging out of your arm



Its a bummer, chap. Really, all dopers should be made to wear badges or summat :wink:

In Ashenden's own words: '“It won’t catch every single rider who had doped. A large part of this is due to the margins of tolerance we must allow to ensure that riders are not wrongly accused of doping – which means that there are riders who we suspect are doping after we’ve reviewed their profile, but these riders are not sanctioned via the Passport because we must allow a large margin of tolerance. They are however closely targeted, which increases the likelihood that they will be caught in the future.”
Last edited by Richmond Racer on Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

Cumulonimbus
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Cumulonimbus » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:22 am

iainf72 wrote:
Cumulonimbus wrote:Appears that Armstrong's data from the tour in 2009 or 2010 for that matter was not passed to anyone for analysis. The program which decides if a sample warrants further examination did not flag it up. Raises the question of why it wasnt flagged when other people have said they believe it shows he was doping. Also, assuming the profile was suspicious, it raises the question of whether anyone else has slipped through the system.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13931 ... -2009.aspx


Surely if Ashenden is going to bleat on about things, he should be bleating on about the statistical analysis software and why it didn't work. I'd hate to think it was because he had something to do with defining the parameters.


Yes, it will be interesting to see why it apparently didnt work. If it is anything to do with him then surely the UCI will say something about that soon.

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Blazing Saddles
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Blazing Saddles » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:25 am

iainf72 wrote:
Cumulonimbus wrote:Appears that Armstrong's data from the tour in 2009 or 2010 for that matter was not passed to anyone for analysis. The program which decides if a sample warrants further examination did not flag it up. Raises the question of why it wasnt flagged when other people have said they believe it shows he was doping. Also, assuming the profile was suspicious, it raises the question of whether anyone else has slipped through the system.

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13931 ... -2009.aspx


Surely if Ashenden is going to bleat on about things, he should be bleating on about the statistical analysis software and why it didn't work. I'd hate to think it was because he had something to do with defining the parameters.


While it's all about parameters, same as it every was, it does seem like it boils down to naff software.
It seems that as long as a rider doesn't post a figure outside a given range, the software won't pick it up.
Which is pretty useless when it comes to GT's, where the name of the game is maintaining levels
elevated prior to the big race.

So, the bio passport is only as good as the programme, which isn't much good at all.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

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ddraver
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby ddraver » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:31 am

Richmond Racer wrote:
ddraver wrote:Starting to think.this bio-passport is such an inexact science it make geology look about as certain as astrophysics! Something else that you to be so blatently doping that you may as well have an epo syringe hanging out of your arm



Its a bummer, chap. Really, all dopers should be made to wear badges or summat :wink:

In Ashenden's own words: '“It won’t catch every single rider who had doped. A large part of this is due to the margins of tolerance we must allow to ensure that riders are not wrongly accused of doping – which means that there are riders who we suspect are doping after we’ve reviewed their profile, but these riders are not sanctioned via the Passport because we must allow a large margin of tolerance. They are however closely targeted, which increases the likelihood that they will be caught in the future.”


But "testing" also does nt catch cheats! ;)

This stuff is just making me depressed now, even two dull as dishwater rugby matches at the weekend were vastly preferable!
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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Richmond Racer
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Richmond Racer » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:36 am

No cheating in rugger is there, eh? :wink: Never mind PEDs or 'roids, Bloodgate anyone?

Come on chap, you know you love cycling.

Richmond Racer
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Richmond Racer » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:37 am

I'd also like to apologise, just realised over-use of winking emoticons in last few posts. Soz.

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ddraver
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby ddraver » Wed Feb 13, 2013 09:47 am

A hell of a lot less bullsh1t about it though, Bloodgate people were banned swiftly and harshly - Teams are also starting to realise that having behemoths at 12 and 13 does not result in a lot of tries, just a lot of penalties for holding on when they get isolated...
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Wallace and Gromit
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Wallace and Gromit » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:15 am

ddraver wrote:But "testing" also does nt catch cheats! ;)


Not sure if this is an ironic comment or not, but a distinction needs to be drawn between in-competition and out of competition testing.

Under in-competition testing, it's easy to avoid positive tests, as the doctors know when the events are, and how long their riders remain "glowing" (or whatever the term is!) for a given dose. Thus they stop or reduce doses at a specific point prior to competing.

The only way to guarantee not failing out of competition tests is to not take the test, assuming that ooc testing is initiated at random. Thus, targeted ooc testing on those with suspicious passport readings is the way to go. One part of the problem is that there isn't enough ooc testing undertaken. The other part of the problem is that without ooc testing being the responsibility of an independent body, there's a massive incentive for the UCI to not undertake ooc testing (or to tip riders off that they're about to be tested) as it will ask questions to which they don't want the answer being made public!

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ddraver
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby ddraver » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:19 am

fully ironic...

Have festina girls tactics removed the significance of the winking smiley now?
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Macaloon
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Macaloon » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:24 am

Winking: :arrow: Please don't make me get Sarah P out of Room 101.
Rugby: :lol: Ireland v England - Boat race without the tension of possible sinking.
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