Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he doped

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sherer
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby sherer » Sat Feb 02, 2013 17:45 pm

dennisn wrote:
frenchfighter wrote:Up the Ventoux, stage 20 Tdf '09. The Caisse rider is trying to hand his bottle to Contador as they are coming past. Lance reaches out and takes it for himself. Can't remember exactly but I think he may have tried to then pass it on to Contador after taking a drink but Contador refused.


Sorry, but have to ask. How does this become a "dirty character" / "slimy greaseball" incident? Especially in light of your comment "...can't remember exactly..."? :?


Basically he was stopping Contador getting a drink when he needed one. Any chance to get a slight advantage

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dennisn
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dennisn » Sat Feb 02, 2013 18:19 pm

sherer wrote:
dennisn wrote:
frenchfighter wrote:Up the Ventoux, stage 20 Tdf '09. The Caisse rider is trying to hand his bottle to Contador as they are coming past. Lance reaches out and takes it for himself. Can't remember exactly but I think he may have tried to then pass it on to Contador after taking a drink but Contador refused.


Sorry, but have to ask. How does this become a "dirty character" / "slimy greaseball" incident? Especially in light of your comment "...can't remember exactly..."? :?


Basically he was stopping Contador getting a drink when he needed one. Any chance to get a slight advantage


Sounds more like you took a picture that you had no idea about the circumstances(hence the can't remember exactly)
and turned it into what you want to see happening??? That sounded good to you so you're now posting it out there as a fact. Truth is you really don't need to bother because you're simply "preaching to the choir", as they say, and the choir will believe all you say as long as it suits their agenda. I'm pretty sure that your explanation fits their agenda. Me, I'm a heathen and don't sing in that churches choir. :wink:

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frenchfighter
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby frenchfighter » Sat Feb 02, 2013 18:38 pm

Just google it. The results will corroborate what I've described above.
Contador is the Greatest

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dennisn
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dennisn » Sat Feb 02, 2013 18:46 pm

frenchfighter wrote:Just google it. The results will corroborate what I've described above.


Google what? :?

dougzz
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dougzz » Sat Feb 02, 2013 19:56 pm

sherer wrote:Basically he was stopping Contador getting a drink when he needed one. Any chance to get a slight advantage

Guttierez though was on a different (Trade) team to Bert, maybe Lance thought 'buying' favours like that ungentlemanly and intervened to ensure fair play. I inserted (Trade) as I wasn't sure of their positions in the Spanish best doper wins collective.

dougzz
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dougzz » Sat Feb 02, 2013 19:58 pm

dennisn wrote:
frenchfighter wrote:Just google it. The results will corroborate what I've described above.

Google what? :?

"Psychiatric help" would be my suggestion :wink:

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dennisn
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dennisn » Sat Feb 02, 2013 20:15 pm

dougzz wrote:
dennisn wrote:
frenchfighter wrote:Just google it. The results will corroborate what I've described above.

Google what? :?

"Psychiatric help" would be my suggestion :wink:


Sorry, tried that but without much success. :oops:

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dennisn
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dennisn » Sat Feb 02, 2013 20:27 pm

dougzz wrote:
sherer wrote:Basically he was stopping Contador getting a drink when he needed one. Any chance to get a slight advantage

Guttierez though was on a different (Trade) team to Bert, maybe Lance thought 'buying' favours like that ungentlemanly and intervened to ensure fair play. I inserted (Trade) as I wasn't sure of their positions in the Spanish best doper wins collective.


How do we know that LA wasn't handing the bottle back AFTER AC took a drink and asked him to(pretty please)? How do we know Guttierez wasn't helping LA? How do you know it didn't go down like this - "hey, is that the new Lemon Lime version of that powder?" "Ya, sure is." "can I have sip?." Or how about - "my that's a very well designed bottle, who makes it?"

Is there video of all this or is this simply a moment in time photo?

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LangerDan
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby LangerDan » Sat Feb 02, 2013 20:42 pm

From "El Pais" - 27 July 2009

"Yo iba en fuga y me acaba de alcanzar el grupo de Contador y Armstrong. Iba por la izquierda de la carretera y cuando me alcanzó Contador, que iba por el centro, le ofrecí mi bidón, porque vi que él no tenía agua y soy su amigo", cuenta el cántabro Iván Gutiérrez, el número uno en fugas (581 kilómetros escapado, sin recompensa). "Pero fue alargar el brazo con el agua, cuando Armstrong, que iba un poco más retrasado, por el centro, lo cogió al vuelo y se adelantó a Alberto. Después de beber se lo ofreció a Alberto, pero éste pasó. Y ya se lo iba a quedar cuando le recordé que era mío, que me lo devolviera".

Or roughly translated
“I was in the breakaway when the group of Armstrong and Contador caught up with me. I was on the left of the road when Contador got to me. I offered him my bottle because I saw that he didn’t have any water and I am his friend,” says Ivan Gutierrez, who is number one in breakaways (in the entire Tour did 581 miles by himself.) “But, I extended my arm with the water when Armstrong who was a little behind me grabbed it on the fly taking it from Alberto’s reach. After drinking it, he offered it to Alberto, but he passed. And he was going to keep it when I reminded him it was mine and for him to return it."
'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'

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dennisn
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dennisn » Sat Feb 02, 2013 20:44 pm

frenchfighter wrote:Up the Ventoux, stage 20 Tdf '09. Guttierez is trying to hand his bottle to Contador as they are coming past. Lance reaches out and takes it for himself. Can't remember exactly but I think he may have tried to then pass it on to Contador after taking a drink but Contador refused.


Why would AC refuse if he was looking for a drink? Are you also saying that LA took a sip or two? Hard to imagine that LA or AC would drink anything offered up by another team. Cheating and all that ya know. But I could be wrong.
Also of significance, did AC ask for the drink or was it offered to him? How do we know Guttierez was "trying to hand his bottle to Contador"? Or that he meant to hand it to anyone?

Richmond Racer
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Richmond Racer » Sat Feb 02, 2013 20:47 pm

dennis, why not use google search to find out what went on between Contador and Armstrong in the 09 Tour. That will give you an idea as to why Contador wouldnt accept anything from Armstrong.

Its an amazing thing, the internet. Lots to find out. And google's not a bad search engine though you appear to struggle with it.

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dennisn
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dennisn » Sat Feb 02, 2013 20:49 pm

LangerDan wrote:From "El Pais" - 27 July 2009

"Yo iba en fuga y me acaba de alcanzar el grupo de Contador y Armstrong. Iba por la izquierda de la carretera y cuando me alcanzó Contador, que iba por el centro, le ofrecí mi bidón, porque vi que él no tenía agua y soy su amigo", cuenta el cántabro Iván Gutiérrez, el número uno en fugas (581 kilómetros escapado, sin recompensa). "Pero fue alargar el brazo con el agua, cuando Armstrong, que iba un poco más retrasado, por el centro, lo cogió al vuelo y se adelantó a Alberto. Después de beber se lo ofreció a Alberto, pero éste pasó. Y ya se lo iba a quedar cuando le recordé que era mío, que me lo devolviera".

Or roughly translated
“I was in the breakaway when the group of Armstrong and Contador caught up with me. I was on the left of the road when Contador got to me. I offered him my bottle because I saw that he didn’t have any water and I am his friend,” says Ivan Gutierrez, who is number one in breakaways (in the entire Tour did 581 miles by himself.) “But, I extended my arm with the water when Armstrong who was a little behind me grabbed it on the fly taking it from Alberto’s reach. After drinking it, he offered it to Alberto, but he passed. And he was going to keep it when I reminded him it was mine and for him to return it."


Now that doesn't sound like anything quite a horrible as "frenchfighter" has conjured up.

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frenchfighter
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby frenchfighter » Sat Feb 02, 2013 21:15 pm

dougzz wrote:
sherer wrote:Basically he was stopping Contador getting a drink when he needed one. Any chance to get a slight advantage

Guttierez though was on a different (Trade) team to Bert, maybe Lance thought 'buying' favours like that ungentlemanly and intervened to ensure fair play. I inserted (Trade) as I wasn't sure of their positions in the Spanish best doper wins collective.


What a stupid comment. Not surprising coming from you duggy boy.
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frenchfighter
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby frenchfighter » Sat Feb 02, 2013 21:18 pm

LangerDan wrote:"And he was going to keep it when I reminded him it was mine and for him to return it."


That is the bit I forgot and that was the bit that made me chuckle at the time and did on re-reading it.
Contador is the Greatest

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dennisn
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dennisn » Sat Feb 02, 2013 21:22 pm

Richmond Racer wrote:dennis, why not use google search to find out what went on between Contador and Armstrong in the 09 Tour. That will give you an idea as to why Contador wouldnt accept anything from Armstrong.

Its an amazing thing, the internet. Lots to find out. And google's not a bad search engine though you appear to struggle with it.


To be honest, it's not me that's making all these statements about what is and isn't a fact. If you make a statement, all I'm doing is asking you to come up with your proof(such as it may be). It's not up to me to prove that what you say is right / wrong. It's up to you. You made the claim that this or that is how it went. If you can't back it up right then and there, of what good is asking ME to prove it? I didn't say it. I, and I doubt anyone else, has either the time or the inclination to search for your proofs. If you can't provide any credible "links" to what you claim then all I can do is assume that something has caught your eye and you've written it up to suit your agenda. When I read something without "backup" it raises questions and like you(when you read my posts) it may get filed in the "this guys a nut" folder. In other words if it's what you think happened then say it's only what YOU think happened. At least then others will know that it may or may not be fact.

I'm thinking it went down like this, I'll bet it happened this way, my best guess is that, my theory is, that sort of thing. Take credit - responsibility for your OWN thoughts and give credit for the thoughts of others whom you are simply rehashing.

Richmond Racer
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby Richmond Racer » Sat Feb 02, 2013 21:30 pm

who's this 'You' you're always bleating about? Not me, not anyone I know, and usually its not anyone on this forum.

you posting here is really just a lazy alternative to you going outside your home and howling at the moon.

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rob churchill
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby rob churchill » Sat Feb 02, 2013 21:32 pm

dennisn wrote:
frenchfighter wrote:Just google it. The results will corroborate what I've described above.


Google what? :?


This.
I have a policy of only posting comment on the internet under my real name. This is to moderate my natural instinct to flame your fatuous, ill-informed, irrational, credulous, bigoted, semi-literate opinions to carbon, you knuckle-dragging f***wits.

B3rnieMac
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby B3rnieMac » Sat Feb 02, 2013 21:35 pm

Dennis, since this a pro race forum, maybe if you watched the races you would have seen this happen at the time? The rest of us all did.

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dennisn
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dennisn » Sat Feb 02, 2013 21:52 pm

rob churchill wrote:
dennisn wrote:
frenchfighter wrote:Just google it. The results will corroborate what I've described above.


Google what? :?


This.


Thanx. That(this) took me to a plethora of websites but alas no video. So was this a video or a picture?
In any case I'm going to go with "LangerDan"s explanation. Seems perfectly plausible. A moment in a race. Nothing more.

dougzz
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Re: Lance Armstrong gets life ban,loses 7 TDF,confesses he d

Postby dougzz » Sat Feb 02, 2013 23:29 pm

frenchfighter wrote:
dougzz wrote:
sherer wrote:Basically he was stopping Contador getting a drink when he needed one. Any chance to get a slight advantage

Guttierez though was on a different (Trade) team to Bert, maybe Lance thought 'buying' favours like that ungentlemanly and intervened to ensure fair play. I inserted (Trade) as I wasn't sure of their positions in the Spanish best doper wins collective.

What a stupid comment. Not surprising coming from you duggy boy.

Smartarse remarks aside, don't you find the 'he's my friend' a little unsavoury?

Edit: Also, I suppose the underlying point is that given what LA has done to cycling, you pulling up this incident is ridiculous. I know it involved Bertie, and that causes you great personal affront, but don't you think in regard to what LA did this is a non incident?


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