Genuine question for Frenchie

Talk about competitive road cycling in all its forms
User avatar
RichN95
Posts: 15978
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 00:36 am

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby RichN95 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 22:51 pm

While we're on this thread I would like to address another post which I can't find by someone who suggested that I attack Contador just because I don't like French Fighter.

Two points:

1. I don't like Contador. This comes from the beginning, not because of his positive test. I've never liked him - I don't know why - with me it's irrational gut reactions. (And strangely there is a personal reason why I should like him).

2. French Fighter. I don't dislike him. I never have. I don't know him. Even as someone who works in Intellectual Property I've stopped worrying about the photos. But I think he's passionate and enthusiastic. Where Contador is concerned he's a little over the top - verging on trolling - and I may react a little. But if I met him in real life, I would happily buy a bottle of wine to share and then argue the night away on almost every topic.
Twitter: @RichN95

User avatar
coriordan
Posts: 5339
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 21:11 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby coriordan » Fri Oct 12, 2012 23:27 pm

RichN95 wrote:I would happily buy a bottle of wine to share


et du pain et du boursin, bien sur?

Bakunin
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 13:18 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby Bakunin » Sat Oct 13, 2012 03:55 am

The Mad Rapper wrote:
Bakunin wrote:So says the man that actually posted: "I love George and always will."

George was vile and a fraud. I say that courteously however.


I suggest you go back to school.

Apologist - A person who argues in defence or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution.

Posting 'I love George and I always will' doesn't make me an apologist. I've offered no defence, I've simply stated that I accept what he did in the past and it doesn't change my regard for him.

I hope that clears things up for you and you can accept that. Or you can go f*ck yourself, whichever you prefer. I don't say that courteously. Obviously.


Ok -- your not an apologist according to your online definition. We can all applaud.

But your George love seems to be unconditional --apparently you have no problem accepting his lying, cheating, and fraud. Big George is a big hypocrite. He learned well from Armstrong.

He helped make the sport a joke -- and that's a fact.

I hope that clears things up, but it won't, because you seem f*cked.

User avatar
Dave_1
Posts: 9319
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 16:04 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby Dave_1 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 04:12 am

Timoid. wrote:Given that :
- Doping was institutional on ONCE/Liberty Seguros until 2006 (Contador was there 2003 - 2006)
- Doping on Discovery was institutional until at least 2007 and probably beyond (Contador was there from 2007 - 2010)
- That Marti was central to all doping operations and was Contador's personal "coach" until recently (at least 2011)
- That Contador has a positive clen test and indications of blood doping from the 2010 Tour

Do you really believe that Contador is clean not just another pharmacological product?

Genuine question. I do not want this to turn into a Frenchie bashing session.


I do like French Fighter's passion for the sport. Don't really want to antagonise him however to defend Bert is not tenable. Bert is not authentic

User avatar
Rick Chasey
Lives Here
Posts: 28557
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 15:34 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby Rick Chasey » Sat Oct 13, 2012 06:25 am

RichN95 wrote:But if I met him in real life, I would happily buy a bottle of wine to share and then argue the night away on almost every topic.


Some of us have. ;-)

Sort of.

User avatar
TMR
Posts: 3869
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 23:00 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby TMR » Sat Oct 13, 2012 07:01 am

Bakunin wrote:Ok -- your not an apologist according to your online definition. We can all applaud.


Oh do grow up.

But your George love seems to be unconditional --apparently you have no problem accepting his lying, cheating, and fraud. Big George is a big hypocrite. He learned well from Armstrong.


Love is unconditional. You accept someone for their flaws and carry on any way.

Make no mistake though, I am disappointed, but I'm not really surprised. That's right, I'm not surprised - this week has only confirmed what I've suspected for some time. When I first became interested in Pro Cycling it was towards the end of the Armstrong era. I watched all the old races, but something didn't ring true about his victory on Stage 15 from Lézat-sur-Lèze to Pla d'Adet. He rode in an era when PED use was the norm, and it was clear that a rider could not compete at that level, against convicted dopers, unless he were also taking drugs.

That doesn't mean that I condone what he did, I don't. I won't even try to defend the indefensible.

He helped make the sport a joke -- and that's a fact.


Of course he did. He's as guilty as guilty can be. No argument there.

I hope that clears things up, but it won't, because you seem f*cked.


I went to the 2011 TdF Team Presentation at Puy de Foy with my wife and I met George. I thought all my Christmases had come at once. He was a really nice guy, very engaging and warm and took a few moments to chat. I still really like him and respect him as a rider - don't cry because I won't join you in tearing him down.
Last edited by TMR on Sat Oct 13, 2012 07:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

User avatar
TMR
Posts: 3869
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 23:00 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby TMR » Sat Oct 13, 2012 07:03 am

Rick Chasey wrote:
RichN95 wrote:But if I met him in real life, I would happily buy a bottle of wine to share and then argue the night away on almost every topic.


Some of us have. ;-)

Sort of.


Sexy cyber chit-chat doesn't count big boy! ;)
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

User avatar
Yellow Peril
Posts: 4401
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 08:41 am

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby Yellow Peril » Sat Oct 13, 2012 07:14 am

I respect Rapper's love of George even though I don't share it. However, I do think George is a useful barometer for the difference that drugs can make to a rider. For many years he was the ultimate super-domestique and I seem to remember he was touted as LA's successor. when LA retired he became a rider valued for his experience rather than his results, he just disappeared off the front of the peloton.

Without the pressure of doping and the environment of fear and bullying that I believe LA would have created I bet he really started to enjoy cycling.

My worry is that my hero Stannard gets busted for running on petrol instead of diesel.

User avatar
frenchfighter
Posts: 30000
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 17:35 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby frenchfighter » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:00 am

The Mad Rapper wrote:
Rick Chasey wrote:
RichN95 wrote:But if I met him in real life, I would happily buy a bottle of wine to share and then argue the night away on almost every topic.


Some of us have. ;-)

Sort of.


Sexy cyber chit-chat doesn't count big boy! ;)


Make sure you pop along to the Christmas meet up this year MR!
Contador is the Greatest

User avatar
frenchfighter
Posts: 30000
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 17:35 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby frenchfighter » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:05 am

RichN95 wrote:While we're on this thread I would like to address another post which I can't find by someone who suggested that I attack Contador just because I don't like French Fighter.

Two points:

1. I don't like Contador. This comes from the beginning, not because of his positive test. I've never liked him - I don't know why - with me it's irrational gut reactions. (And strangely there is a personal reason why I should like him).

2. French Fighter. I don't dislike him. I never have. I don't know him. Even as someone who works in Intellectual Property I've stopped worrying about the photos. But I think he's passionate and enthusiastic. Where Contador is concerned he's a little over the top - verging on trolling - and I may react a little. But if I met him in real life, I would happily buy a bottle of wine to share and then argue the night away on almost every topic.


I don't dislike Rich either! I disagree with some of the things he says and find him pedantic on occasion, yet he has a lot of knowledge and is factual and reasoned. He also is realistic and often makes point others don't!

Remind me which riders you like Rich? Im surprised you talk about gut instinct above when i had you down as very rational.

None of it matters mucky. I guess a Tory supporter cannot understand why someone goes in for Labour and vv. Same with cyclists. Life would be very dull without diversity and contrast!
Contador is the Greatest

User avatar
Timoid.
Posts: 2724
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 21:55 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby Timoid. » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:08 am

Rick Chasey wrote:
Timoid. wrote:. I just cannot trust anyone who was a leader for a team run by Bruyneel. He would have to be the only one who stood up to Bruyneel in his entire tenure as DS.

.


You think Boonen was at least on the juice in 2002 then?


Dunno. Wouldn't surprise me, Do you think Lefevre runs a clean team? But looking at the USADA stuff it seems the real programmed doping was on the Tour. Boonen never rode the tour for USPS.

I probably don't like to think about Boonen too much as I really like him. Serious double standards, I know but if he came up with a positive clen test I wouldn't be shocked.

User avatar
prawny
Posts: 4979
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 21:10 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby prawny » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:50 am

The Mad Rapper wrote:
prawny wrote:Du pain du vin du boursain?


It's 'Du pain, du vin, et du Boursain' :P


Yeah but who got in there first :P :wink:
Saracen Dirttrax Disc
Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015
Voodoo Bizango - 2014

User avatar
TMR
Posts: 3869
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 23:00 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby TMR » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:00 pm

prawny wrote:Yeah but who got in there first :P :wink:


Heh! You win the cookie! :mrgreen:
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

User avatar
prawny
Posts: 4979
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 21:10 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby prawny » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:02 pm

The Mad Rapper wrote:
prawny wrote:Yeah but who got in there first :P :wink:


Heh! You win the cookie! :mrgreen:


I love cookies.
Saracen Dirttrax Disc
Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015
Voodoo Bizango - 2014

Bakunin
Posts: 840
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 13:18 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby Bakunin » Sat Oct 13, 2012 14:39 pm

The Mad Rapper wrote:
Bakunin wrote:Ok -- your not an apologist according to your online definition. We can all applaud.


Oh do grow up.

But your George love seems to be unconditional --apparently you have no problem accepting his lying, cheating, and fraud. Big George is a big hypocrite. He learned well from Armstrong.


Love is unconditional. You accept someone for their flaws and carry on any way.

Make no mistake though, I am disappointed, but I'm not really surprised. That's right, I'm not surprised - this week has only confirmed what I've suspected for some time. When I first became interested in Pro Cycling it was towards the end of the Armstrong era. I watched all the old races, but something didn't ring true about his victory on Stage 15 from Lézat-sur-Lèze to Pla d'Adet. He rode in an era when PED use was the norm, and it was clear that a rider could not compete at that level, against convicted dopers, unless he were also taking drugs.

That doesn't mean that I condone what he did, I don't. I won't even try to defend the indefensible.

He helped make the sport a joke -- and that's a fact.


Of course he did. He's as guilty as guilty can be. No argument there.

I hope that clears things up, but it won't, because you seem f*cked.


I went to the 2011 TdF Team Presentation at Puy de Foy with my wife and I met George. I thought all my Christmases had come at once. He was a really nice guy, very engaging and warm and took a few moments to chat. I still really like him and respect him as a rider - don't cry because I won't join you in tearing him down.


OK -- fair enough.

User avatar
greasedscotsman
Posts: 6637
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 20:38 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby greasedscotsman » Sat Oct 13, 2012 15:02 pm

I hate you all. None of you know half as much as I do about bike racing! :D

User avatar
Rick Chasey
Lives Here
Posts: 28557
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 15:34 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby Rick Chasey » Sat Oct 13, 2012 15:58 pm

Timoid. wrote:
Rick Chasey wrote:
Timoid. wrote:. I just cannot trust anyone who was a leader for a team run by Bruyneel. He would have to be the only one who stood up to Bruyneel in his entire tenure as DS.

.


You think Boonen was at least on the juice in 2002 then?


Dunno. Wouldn't surprise me, Do you think Lefevre runs a clean team? But looking at the USADA stuff it seems the real programmed doping was on the Tour. Boonen never rode the tour for USPS.

I probably don't like to think about Boonen too much as I really like him. Serious double standards, I know but if he came up with a positive clen test I wouldn't be shocked.


I have the same.

I just look at what he did in 2002 compared to a juiced Museeuw and I think how could such a young guy have pretty muchas good legs.

In my head I imagine Lefevre as a passive DS re doping. Don't mention it much, expect riders to pass tests. Not quite like Bruyneel and Riis. No good reason to say so though. Just my overactive imagination.

User avatar
TheBigBean
Posts: 3084
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 14:42 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby TheBigBean » Sat Oct 13, 2012 16:51 pm

On topic, another factor in favour of Contador is that he hardly destroyed the opposition in 2007. He beat super clean Cadel by 23s and Leipheimer by 31s. You would think if he was an extra-terrestrial Bruyneel product he would have made it a bit easier for himself.

However, by 2009, things were a bit different. Although, if he needed a ride from his mechanic to get to the start of the TT, it is hard to imagine he was getting much team doping assistance i.e. he may have been doping but it is unlikely Bruyneel was masterminding it, so his association with Astana, in this case, shouldn't be that damming. (But his association with the Dr. is one he may have to explain...)

Finally, one of the best things about the CAS report was the way they didn't considered the questionable associations. This worked against Contador as well, as the farmer of his steak had some questionable clen convicted associates. I think this is important because otherwise we would have to consider Bassons a filthy drugs cheat, after all, he rode for Festina in 1998, so must be guilty.

User avatar
itisaboutthebike
Posts: 1086
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 19:25 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby itisaboutthebike » Sun Oct 14, 2012 08:21 am

Ashenden (in a recent CN article) said that Bertie blood doped in the 2010 Tour...........thats good enough for me.
Bye bye Patty boy - you scumbag !

User avatar
Dave_1
Posts: 9319
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 16:04 pm

Re: Genuine question for Frenchie

Postby Dave_1 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 13:28 pm

I note down in the clinic there is some speculation as to whether rider 16 is Alberto Contador. Any views?


Return to “Pro Race”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 2alexcoo, cc78, professeur, RonB, SpecialGuestStar, Wheelspinner and 24 guests