Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

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alfablue
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Re: Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

Postby alfablue » Thu Dec 06, 2012 08:50 am

KentPhil wrote:Don't file the lawyer tabs off or you'll fall under the wrath of the UCI

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/03/ ... gth_209958
Interesting, especially this bit:
If the rule is enforced this year, team mechanics will have to put new forks on their race bikes that include the stock tabs. To retain fast wheel changes, they may have to resort to redesigned quick releases that open far enough to clear the tabs.
which would completely negate the effect of the tabs, and the safety they provide :roll:

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Rolf F
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Re: Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

Postby Rolf F » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:04 pm

alfablue wrote:which would completely negate the effect of the tabs, and the safety they provide


Depends where you see the problem. If the tabs are needed because people don't do up their QR, then redesigned QRs will indeed negate the tabs. On the other hand, if the problem is people not tightening the QR enough, then they won't negate the problem.

Just by visuals, I'd notice if my QRs were hanging loose but not that they weren't tight enough.
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alfablue
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Re: Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

Postby alfablue » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:17 pm

I could envisage that riders / mechanics in the heat of the moment, could fail to tighten them enough and then they come loose; I wonder how common such events might be.

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lotus49
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Re: Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

Postby lotus49 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 13:42 pm

alfablue wrote:I don't think they are much of a nuisance; everyone is in such a rush these days :roll: . Unless you're racing, just take the extra 2.1 seconds to remove the wheel and be thankful that this is protecting the stupid and careless from themselves.


In the UK people are expected to suffer the consequences of their own stupidity. I think that this is a good idea. It helps to improve the gene pool. There is no point in suing someone because they didn't try to stop you doing something idiotic but sadly in the US law suits that would be regarded as frivolous in the UK often succeed.

This is the only reason that lawyer tabs exist and I don't think that's a very good reason. The whole point of a quick release is that you can release it quickly. Having to unscrew it and then screw it back again, possibly to a different tension is a waste of time considering that a properly done up QR will be safe, lawyer tabs or not.

Having said that, I was just curious. It's not something that keeps me awake at night. Perhaps I shouldn't have bought a US bike (mine's a Giant) :D .

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drlodge
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Re: Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

Postby drlodge » Fri Dec 07, 2012 13:52 pm

lotus49 wrote: The whole point of a quick release is that you can release it quickly. Having to unscrew it and then screw it back again, possibly to a different tension is a waste of time considering that a properly done up QR will be safe, lawyer tabs or not.


This----^ Why are there not lawyer tabs on the rear wheels though, they too have the same quick release mechanism and therefore pose the same "risk"?
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alfablue
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Re: Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

Postby alfablue » Fri Dec 07, 2012 14:06 pm

lotus49 wrote:
alfablue wrote:I don't think they are much of a nuisance; everyone is in such a rush these days :roll: . Unless you're racing, just take the extra 2.1 seconds to remove the wheel and be thankful that this is protecting the stupid and careless from themselves.


In the UK people are expected to suffer the consequences of their own stupidity. I think that this is a good idea. It helps to improve the gene pool. There is no point in suing someone because they didn't try to stop you doing something idiotic but sadly in the US law suits that would be regarded as frivolous in the UK often succeed.

This is the only reason that lawyer tabs exist and I don't think that's a very good reason. The whole point of a quick release is that you can release it quickly. Having to unscrew it and then screw it back again, possibly to a different tension is a waste of time considering that a properly done up QR will be safe, lawyer tabs or not.

Having said that, I was just curious. It's not something that keeps me awake at night. Perhaps I shouldn't have bought a US bike (mine's a Giant) :D .
I don't agree about stupidity. Failing to do up your QR's is human error, you may brand it as stupid, but it is an error rather than a poor (stupid) choice, humans will err. In life we have many devices to prevent harms in the case of error (you don't want stall alarms on aircraft, for example?).

Calling them lawyer tabs does not mean they are purely to avoid litigation, and indeed this is just a slang term for them.

In terms of quick release, they are still quick release because you don't need a spanner to undo them. The extra time it takes is in my experience, no more than a second.

I presume you must be racing if this time is so crucial.

alfablue
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Re: Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

Postby alfablue » Fri Dec 07, 2012 14:09 pm

drlodge wrote:
lotus49 wrote: The whole point of a quick release is that you can release it quickly. Having to unscrew it and then screw it back again, possibly to a different tension is a waste of time considering that a properly done up QR will be safe, lawyer tabs or not.


This----^ Why are there not lawyer tabs on the rear wheels though, they too have the same quick release mechanism and therefore pose the same "risk"?
No, they don't: a rear wheel is also retained by virtue of the chain, also many rear drop outs are forward facing, plus, if the rear wheel were to fail in any way the consequences are going top be less severe.

I remember seeing my son go over his bars after is unsecured front wheel came out (this was in the days prior to tabs) :oops: I own up, it was my fault.

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davidof
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Re: Lawyer tabs - does/did your bike have them

Postby davidof » Fri Dec 07, 2012 14:11 pm

Both my racing bikes have them. I thought they were stupid. Then I rode back from work one day, Geneva to Chambery, about 105km, and when I got home realized I hadn't tightened the front wheel (I had to remove it on the train due to space reasons). So now I'm not sure, maybe if they were not there I would take more care with my bike.


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