Etape du Tour 2013

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t5nel
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby t5nel » Thu Oct 25, 2012 14:31 pm

niedermeyer wrote:A huge percentage of the actual starters finished Acte 1.


Well in more objective terms. There were 5688 starters and 4422 people who got a time so 78% finished
BUT for reasons you will need to ask the ASO about a huge number of people were not broomed up and carried on finishing with a time that *should* have meant they were swept up.

The actual number of people who finished inside 10hrs (the nominal maximum time based) is 2884 so 51%. I should point out that some people could have got times > 10hrs and avoided the broom if they started in an early pen. But I think 10hrs is a good cut off point as this is the time from when ASO guaranteed the final starters would leave by to the time they said the finish closed.

So 51% or 78% or somewhere in between I am not sure if this is huge (or not) compared to previous etapes

Boleynboy
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby Boleynboy » Thu Oct 25, 2012 17:46 pm

t5nel wrote:
niedermeyer wrote:A huge percentage of the actual starters finished Acte 1.


Well in more objective terms. There were 5688 starters and 4422 people who got a time so 78% finished
BUT for reasons you will need to ask the ASO about a huge number of people were not broomed up and carried on finishing with a time that *should* have meant they were swept up.

The actual number of people who finished inside 10hrs (the nominal maximum time based) is 2884 so 51%. I should point out that some people could have got times > 10hrs and avoided the broom if they started in an early pen. But I think 10hrs is a good cut off point as this is the time from when ASO guaranteed the final starters would leave by to the time they said the finish closed.

So 51% or 78% or somewhere in between I am not sure if this is huge (or not) compared to previous etapes


Thank you for the figures, backs up what I said in an earlier post. 22% of the starters did not finish, we'll over 1000 riders, and only 50% of the finishers did so under the official cut off time, that is why they had to abandon the cut off times because so many riders were outside of them, which adds up to a very tough ride for many of the starters.
The "huge percentage of starters finished act 1" comment does not reveal the full story, as your figures reveal.

ck99
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby ck99 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 20:08 pm

2012 was my 1st etape. After 6m+ of "obcessive" (in my wife's words ) training, I still only managed to finish in 9h 56m in a state of exhaustion. That said, it was a great experience and it was a milestone to do before sadly turning 50. The 2013 route looks significantly easier, but if they enforce the minimum speed, then it will still be hard.

JS14
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby JS14 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 22:16 pm

It could be worse; they could have chosen Avranches - Mont St Michel for the Etape du Tour :wink:

The Annecy Etape has got a lot of French cyclists grumbling, rightly or wrongly, that it is not challenging enough. But I think the statistics quoted above prove that there aren't 10000 cyclists who can complete a long distance mountain stage in a reasonable 9 or 10 hours (when the professionals do it in 5 hours). Someone who watched the Etape (in the Pyrenees, I think) said only the first couple of hundred competitors looked well trained and seriously up to the job in hand: the rest were ordinary weekend cyclists who were clearly running on reserves to get to the finish.

I reckon that ASO probably took a bath with the cost of coaches for Albertville - La Toussuire. I counted at least 15 coaches queuing to get into La Toussuire at one point. I don't know how much it costs to hire a coach on a Sunday in France for the day and pay the diesel to get it up and down 100 km of mountain roads but I suspect that each cyclist who fails to get to the finish under their own steam is probably wiping out ASO's profit margin on their entry fee.

I agree with the commentator who said that ASO has rejigged the Etape format to appeal to the mainly foreign cyclist who travels to the Alps as part of a wider holiday, watching a few stages of the "real" Tour, doing one or two classic cols before or after and taking part in the Etape for the "ambience" and the kudos of having done it.

fenlandplodder
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby fenlandplodder » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:20 am

We rode the 2013 Etape du Tour route yesterday. I suspect there will be traffic jam on the climb up the Cote de Puget as the road is narrow and so close to the start. The descent from the Col de Pres is a blast - very fast and technical. The total climbing in the ride is about 3500m. However about 1300m of that happens before the start of slog up the climb to Revard. So the danger is for people to set of too quickly a burn themselves out before the big climbs. The climb up the Semnoz from Quintal is a brutal. Although the average gradient quoted by ASO is about right, it hides a multitude of sins. Basically the gradient is constantly changing with numerous sections at more than 12%. It completely destroys one's rhythm. I much prefer slogging up Alpe d'Huez at the end of the Marmotte.
It looks like ASO have produced a really good route - it is surprisingly challenging as a cyclosportive and it should be a cracking Tour stage.

Boleynboy
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby Boleynboy » Fri Oct 26, 2012 15:13 pm

JS14 wrote:It could be worse; they could have chosen Avranches - Mont St Michel for the Etape du Tour :wink:

The Annecy Etape has got a lot of French cyclists grumbling, rightly or wrongly, that it is not challenging enough. But I think the statistics quoted above prove that there aren't 10000 cyclists who can complete a long distance mountain stage in a reasonable 9 or 10 hours (when the professionals do it in 5 hours). Someone who watched the Etape (in the Pyrenees, I think) said only the first couple of hundred competitors looked well trained and seriously up to the job in hand: the rest were ordinary weekend cyclists who were clearly running on reserves to get to the finish.

I reckon that ASO probably took a bath with the cost of coaches for Albertville - La Toussuire. I counted at least 15 coaches queuing to get into La Toussuire at one point. I don't know how much it costs to hire a coach on a Sunday in France for the day and pay the diesel to get it up and down 100 km of mountain roads but I suspect that each cyclist who fails to get to the finish under their own steam is probably wiping out ASO's profit margin on their entry fee.

I agree with the commentator who said that ASO has rejigged the Etape format to appeal to the mainly foreign cyclist who travels to the Alps as part of a wider holiday, watching a few stages of the "real" Tour, doing one or two classic cols before or after and taking part in the Etape for the "ambience" and the kudos of having done it.


All good points, backing up my claim that ASO were not making enough money from the events with so many riders dropping out or missing cut off times.
All said and done I'm going to enter for next year because I know the area and I think it will still make a challenging etape, tougher than some are claiming on here, and the Semnov will be a beast coming right at the end, but it will not be the unenjoyable slog that this years route was for me.
All of the Annecy hotels are booked out already, but I can personally recommend the La Ravoire campsite a few miles along the lake from Annecy. I stayed there this year, it is a five star campsite, and is a 20-30 minute ride along a smooth cycle track to Annecy, perfect for getting to the start without having to worry about traffic, parking etc. They have space for the etape weekend because I have just booked from the Friday to the Monday, and it is a lot cheaper than what the Annecy hotels were charging!

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davelakers
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby davelakers » Fri Oct 26, 2012 17:10 pm

Im really disappointed with this route. Etape du Tour 2013 was my 40th birthday celebration with some friends that I have been planning and I was expecting that being the centenary there will have recognised it in some way by using some famous, iconic climbs. When the TdF route was announced I got excited about the possibility of The Alp or Ventoux.

I think I will look elsewhere. I will not get too many chances to ride in the Alps or Pyrenees so I want to make it special.

velonomad.com
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby velonomad.com » Mon Oct 29, 2012 04:30 am

There are a lot of sportifs for locals in France (and beyond) to do.

I appreciate the problem the ASO finds itself in. Lots more people are heading to Fr from overseas to do Etape as part of a bucket list (I travelled over from Australia 2009-2011 to do it).

Having personally been involved in the logistical nightmare of previous Etapes (2009 and 2011 in particular) I can appreciate the ASOs desire to make the logistics much more hassle free. No one wants a repeat of the Valfrejus debacle on registration day (that was just silly).

The 22km (or thereabouts) return from Semnoz into Annecy proper will make things much easier. They can basically do away with buses and so on.

In terms of the course proper, I doubt it will be "easy" as the poster above who recce'd the course alluded to. A 10km climb at 8.5%av is pretty gnarly. Do it in 39x25 for extra difficulty if you want!

And 130km, across such lumpy terrain, is enough for most people. Notably, I think some people will still need 6months of training. As one of the posters above indicated, 6 months of training for him still wasn't enough.

In any case, for many people, a trip to delightful Annecy, closed roads, 10,000 cyclists all smashing it, it's still going to be hugely fun.

FWIW, I write a post about Etape 13 - http://www.velonomad.com/articles/2013-etape-du-tour/ - which mentions that the Etape can be as easy or as hard as you want it (as well as covering everything else).

velonomad.com
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby velonomad.com » Mon Oct 29, 2012 04:32 am

Boleynboy wrote:
JS14 wrote:All of the Annecy hotels are booked out already, but I can personally recommend the La Ravoire campsite a few miles along the lake from Annecy.

All of them? Or, just all that you could find/your travel agent had access to.

Annecy is not a small town, so that's crazy!

velonomad.com
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby velonomad.com » Mon Oct 29, 2012 04:47 am

Road Red wrote:11,000 is hardly a small number. I would imagine they will continue with 2 Etapes, there is no way you will get 11,000 out on one event.

It may be the first signs of the peak having been reached in numbers? The Etape is a great event though there there are many many other great sportives all over Europe.

However I imagine there will be a further upsurge from the Brits after the summers events.

Pretty sure Ventoux/2009 has 10k (or 9930 or something like that from memory).
Also fairly sure Tourmalet/2010 had circa 10k.

Road Red
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby Road Red » Mon Oct 29, 2012 15:31 pm

velonomad.com wrote:
Road Red wrote:11,000 is hardly a small number. I would imagine they will continue with 2 Etapes, there is no way you will get 11,000 out on one event.

It may be the first signs of the peak having been reached in numbers? The Etape is a great event though there there are many many other great sportives all over Europe.

However I imagine there will be a further upsurge from the Brits after the summers events.

Pretty sure Ventoux/2009 has 10k (or 9930 or something like that from memory).
Also fairly sure Tourmalet/2010 had circa 10k.


You're probably right. They had 7,396 and 6,890 finishers respectively so that probably amounted to 10,000 entries and maybe 9,000 starters on the day. I did both and while there were no major holdups in 2009, I had to walk 2kms of the Marie Blanc in 2010. I believe the later starters had to do even more.

I expect the route this year will attract a full entry, whatever that might be. Hard to see it going over a 10,000 limit, but you'd never know. Congestion might be an issue though.

velonomad.com
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby velonomad.com » Mon Oct 29, 2012 19:51 pm

fenlandplodder wrote:We rode the 2013 Etape du Tour route yesterday.

Fernplodder, do you have the ride on Strava? I'd love to embed it on my website.

JS14
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby JS14 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 19:51 pm

velonomad.com wrote:
Boleynboy wrote:
JS14 wrote:All of the Annecy hotels are booked out already, but I can personally recommend the La Ravoire campsite a few miles along the lake from Annecy.

All of them? Or, just all that you could find/your travel agent had access to.

Annecy is not a small town, so that's crazy!

It was Boleynboy, not me, who said all the hotels were booked and recommended the campsite. But speaking personally, I booked through Expedia on the same evening as the route was announced. Expedia, at least, don't have any availability left. That said, not all hotels are bookable online and not all can be booked so far in advance. I would try contacting individual hotels directly or better still any B&B's ("chambre d'hôtes" in French) that are convenient pour Annecy. I stayed in a B&B in Albertville and the owner got up before 5 am to make sure we got an early breakfast on the Sunday morning. You don't get that at your average hotel.

dandrew
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby dandrew » Mon Oct 29, 2012 21:27 pm

The Etape site is worth checking on a regular basis. They usually post info of all hotels, hostels, B&B's campsites etc that have availability. Last year in the week before the Etape I used the site to secure a booking at an excellent B&B in Mercury 4km from the start in Albertville. The owner also got up at 5am to make breakfast! I also spoke to people who turned up at the local campsite the day before the Etape and were able to pitch there.

I am the god of hell fire
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby I am the god of hell fire » Tue Nov 13, 2012 09:06 am

No one wants a repeat of the Valfrejus debacle on registration day (that was just silly).


I had no idea there had been problems here
My own registration was a breeze

We rode 15km from our hotel to Modane
Took a right to Valfrejus where the queue for the shuttle bus was and then a beautiful traffic free climb to the village

On arrival we put our bikes in the secure parking, took in the trade show, registered with minimal fuss and then had a coffee wishing we were as cool as the people at the Rapha van

What happened?

Rodrego Hernandez
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby Rodrego Hernandez » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:03 am

fenlandplodder wrote:We rode the 2013 Etape du Tour route yesterday. I suspect there will be traffic jam on the climb up the Cote de Puget as the road is narrow and so close to the start. The descent from the Col de Pres is a blast - very fast and technical. The total climbing in the ride is about 3500m. However about 1300m of that happens before the start of slog up the climb to Revard. So the danger is for people to set of too quickly a burn themselves out before the big climbs. The climb up the Semnoz from Quintal is a brutal. Although the average gradient quoted by ASO is about right, it hides a multitude of sins. Basically the gradient is constantly changing with numerous sections at more than 12%. It completely destroys one's rhythm. I much prefer slogging up Alpe d'Huez at the end of the Marmotte.
It looks like ASO have produced a really good route - it is surprisingly challenging as a cyclosportive and it should be a cracking Tour stage.


Really handy summary. Thanks. It's never going to be 'easy', sounds like a great day out.

andrewcozens
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby andrewcozens » Wed Nov 14, 2012 01:05 am

I agree with the commentator who said that ASO has rejigged the Etape format to appeal to the mainly foreign cyclist who travels to the Alps as part of a wider holiday, watching a few stages of the "real" Tour, doing one or two classic cols before or after and taking part in the Etape for the "ambience" and the kudos of having done it.


That is EXACTLY what I am doing :D Coming over from New Zealand to follow part of the tour and do one of the iconic sportifs. The main one here is Round Lake Taupo (153K with 1800M of climbing) and K2 (184K with 2,300M of climbing) so will be lots of training for me to make sure I don't suffer too much on the climbs.

cyclingsheep
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby cyclingsheep » Wed Nov 14, 2012 23:17 pm

To andrewcozens, you'll be fine mate. I did Act2 last year with nothing more than Box Hill in Surrey to train on and managed it no worries.

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davidof
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby davidof » Fri Nov 16, 2012 14:07 pm

Enjoying a pancake at the summit of le Semnoz, very chilly, foggy in the valleys. Now got to cycle home.

Image

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kfinlay
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Re: Etape du Tour 2013

Postby kfinlay » Fri Nov 16, 2012 15:35 pm

Was hoping to do the EdT as my first euro event and as it was going to be the 100th TdF edition I had hoped for a more iconic route. Think I'll end up doing La Marmotte instead and hope for a better 2014 EdT route. At least I've got a couple of weeks to make up my mind but either way I'd better get training organised.
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