The official TrainerRoad thread

When drugs don't work: training and health tips!
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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Sat Jun 22, 2013 08:38 am

Blender is my favourite at the moment.. it raineth.. so it awaiteth
Image
Quite happy with my RHR after 2 espressos :wink:

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MarkP80
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby MarkP80 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 07:30 am

JGSI wrote:Blender is my favourite at the moment.. it raineth.. so it awaiteth :wink:

I bought some Sufferfests in a deal they were offering a couple of weeks ago - I got A Very Dark Place, The Long Scream and Extra Shot. They've all been revised since their original release though, so no matching TrainerRoad workout yet, although the guys have said they'll be available soon. Looking forward to it :twisted:

Cheers,
MarkP
Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!

ManxShred
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby ManxShred » Fri Jun 28, 2013 07:55 am

Well, my FTP seems to have dropped through the floor.
I have been training for the Marmotte, and so have been doing a lot of riding outdoors, and longer rides. On strava, I have been improving my times by quite a lot, including beating my PB by 2 min on a difficult climb I have been using for training.

Last night it was raining here, so I decided to do some indoor training and tried out Angels. My FTP is still set where it was at my last test (end of last year) and I failed badly. I battled to maintain anything close to the settings during the early part of the ride, and eventually had to drop the % down to 90.

I find it really hard to include these really hard efforts into my normal training week.
Road - Volagi Liscio
MTB - Santa Cruz TallBoy

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savethemamil
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby savethemamil » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:39 pm

I've been using TR since Feb this year, was making solid progress at first but FTP seemed to plateau about May. Have also been doing lots of riding on the road over the summer. Last week I did a one hour session on the road at full gas to see what my FTP was "for real". First surprise was I blew away my TR test results by about 15-20%. Second surprise was when I dialled up the FTP on TR and tried to do Ruskin last night, I could get nowhere near it (horrible blowup). I'm using the same PowerTap in both cases, and a massive industrial fan on the turbo, so I'm at a loss to explain it. Why would there be such a big difference indoors vs outdoors?

dbb
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby dbb » Fri Jun 28, 2013 13:25 pm

you don't feel the pain as much when you are seeing the beautiful countryside?
regards,
dbb

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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Sat Jul 20, 2013 08:12 am

I know it's summer and all that .. but some of us are still trying to ready ourselves for some important races coming up in September... nice little blog post from Trainer Road which might help in re focussing efforts:


TrainerRoad
Consistency: Only Part of the Solution
Posted by chad on July 16, 2013 Leave a comment (1) Go to comments

ConsistencyConsistency is the mother of mastery, and if I knew who was responsible for this nugget of wisdom, I’d give due credit. Or maybe it’s simply an observation put forth in its simplest terms. In any case, it’s as germane to the technical aspects of cycling as the non-technical, comparatively straightforward fitness gains we strive for when we train day after day, week after week, season after season.

But it’s often our consistency to blame for fitness plateaus, injuries, and temporary or even long-term declines in power output (which depend on just how far, and how obstinately, we push our ourselves) in the quest for improved capabilities & peak fitness. This is something easily avoided when we listen to our bodies’ signals, and it’s also something addressed in greater detail in an earlier post on training responsively. In this post, however, I’d rather focus on the benefits of proper consistency – being on the mark, as often as possible – as well as some of the pitfalls we encounter even though our intentions are sound. As I see it, consistency can be good, it can be bad, and in some cases it becomes downright ugly.

Nutshell:

Consistent practice yields improvement regardless of the skill or sought-after adaptation.
But there’s a significant difference between consistency and proper consistency.
Practising proper consistency during your efforts – in racing and training - can be the difference between fair results and your best results.
Really make your interval workouts count by treating each interval as though it were the only interval in the workout – strive for near perfection.
Form work for the sake of form work is pointless – perform form drills exceptionally well or modify them such that you can.
GIGO – Garbage In/Garbage Out dictates that improper training yields less than optimal results and can lead to poor habits & even injury.
Muscle memory can just as easily acquire bad ‘memories’ as good ones – memorize proper movement patterns & work ethics.

You don’t need me to tell you that practice yields improvement. Do 100 pushups every day and you’re bound to not only get a little stronger, but you’ll get better at performing pushups. If you practice playing guitar every day, your fingers will become more adept at fretting chords and picking strings. Even typing improves relative to the amount of time you spend tapping away at your keyboard on a consistent basis.

So it’s not exactly a miracle to see a rider who ‘rides lots‘ become a better rider due to little more than rote repetition (italics are used to acknowledge that the type of improvement that comes with high mileage is limited & closely dependent on the intensity of this mileage, so ‘better’ is a pretty subjective word). But repetition alone won’t optimize improvement – not in your level of efficiency, not in your level of fitness, and not in your all-important performance. Reaping measurable, significant performance gains is not merely a matter of consistency but more a matter of the quality of consistency.

Take the pushups for example. If every half hour you were to bang out 5 sloppy pushups where you snaked your body off the floor, head jutting forward, elbows coming nowhere near locking out at the end of their full range of motion while your friend maintained a plank straight body, elbows in tight, lightly grazing the ground with his chest and quickly pressing upward, fully extending his arms in steady sets of 20 pushups every 5 minutes, would you expect the same level of improvement as him? Even if you both did an equal number of pushups, it’s still pretty clear who’s going to get fitter and who’s wasting time & effort.

In much the same way, simply surviving intervals will not make you as fit as if you sought to perfect how well you performed each of your intervals. How did Vince Lombardi put it? Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect. And while perfection isn’t the objective here, the idea is the same. We can’t expect optimal results from less than optimal performance, and that goes for training as much as it goes for racing.

In the case of intervals, our goals ought to center around performing the best possible version of each interval, every single time – intervals that closely hug our target watts, intervals that don’t fade at 1min 50sec even though we’re shooting for 2-minute repeats, intervals where our bodies mimic the hard-working yet relaxed posture we want to emulate on the road. When any of these qualities or abilities degrade, we know it’s time to either make some minor workout modifications or wrap things up for the day. But regardless, when we strive to maximize the quality of our workouts, we all but guarantee ourselves better performances when it really matters.

In the same vein, consider efficiency drills. It’s not realistic to expect optimal technique improvements by repeating 5-minute intervals at 120rpm if you spend the latter 3 minutes of each interval bouncing around on the saddle. Rather, you’d derive far greater benefit and would have spent your time inarguably more productively by slowing things down to 115 or 110rpm or perhaps reducing the interval duration to 2 minutes and performing more of them. In both cases, there’s nothing to keep you from eventually reaching 5 minutes at 120, smooth revolutions per minute if you go about it the right way, i.e. consistently applying high quality, proper form.

This all comes back to the idea of GIGO (Garbage In-Garbage Out) which gives us a pithy little term to describe the process of building poor habits, ones that can haunt us for years, maybe even the rest of our lives. Building proper habits isn’t just good idea, it’s a necessity that can not only further your capabilities but also prevent injury. And you’ve undoubtedly heard the term ‘muscle memory’. Well it’s this ingrained memory that’s responsible for the difference between the elegance and grace of a grand tour rider and the convulsive spin-bike wrestling you can witness in any indoor cycling class taking place at this very moment.

What’s even more interesting about muscle memory is that, to some extent, it can be learned through observation. Simply watching a grand tour rider sail up Alpe d’Huez can make us better climbers! But I’m getting away from the point I’m trying to convey which is how very important the quality of our consistency truly is. It’s not enough to do something often. What really makes our (limited, in most cases) training time all the more effective is the standards to which we hold ourselves when training consistently. Don’t just “ride lots”; instead, if you’re fortunate enough to be able to dedicate hours upon hours to riding, ride lots really well. And if time is in short supply, pursue near-perfection in riding form & workout quality, do it consistently, and you’ll soon gain an understanding of how this simple combination can bring surprisingly high levels of improvement.

So from this point forward, try to stop seeing consistency as a key to improvement all on its own and start recognizing that it’s only part of the equation that brings us closer to optimal fitness and dramatically improved performance. Consistency is vital, no doubt about that, but without proper habits, ever-improving techniques, and high quality, our consistency can only take our performance so far.

sopworth
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby sopworth » Tue Jul 23, 2013 18:43 pm

With this being such a long thread - to avoid me reading through it all, can someone tell me if the figures they are getting on TR are pretty much the same as what they are getting on the road ie: FTP figure etc?
A guy in my cycle club only uses his power meter on his turbo using TR as he said the figures from his road performance and on the trainer differed so much, it was only worth using one set of figures.
Having only recently bought a Powertap hub, i'm in the process of testing it on the road now to achieve my FTP but could I achieve the same results using TR testing?
Thank you.

onemoresolo
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby onemoresolo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 21:05 pm

In short, no. TR gave me an FTP somewhere around 140W. I climbed Alpe d'Huez in just under 66 mins with room to spare which puts me closer to 260W based on my weight. I'm unable to figure out why there is such a huge discrepancy.

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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Tue Jul 23, 2013 21:22 pm

onemoresolo wrote:In short, no. TR gave me an FTP somewhere around 140W. I climbed Alpe d'Huez in just under 66 mins with room to spare which puts me closer to 260W based on my weight. I'm unable to figure out why there is such a huge discrepancy.

Just to clarify, did you ride the ALpe with a PM?
You mention weight, thats all.
Late last year a forum member synched up a Powertap with the Satori turbo. He did a lot of work and the results of the revised (revised from TACX offical curve, that is) power curve were given over to the guys at TR and they added an amended profile on the TR software. The Satori with resistance at 6 gave the closest as dammit power equivalents for arguments sake to the Powertap.

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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby onemoresolo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 22:51 pm

I was basing my power on the graph presented here: http://alex-cycle.blogspot.co.uk/2011/0 ... rtals.html

It's completely unscientific but I'd put my FTP far closer to what's suggested by the chart than what's suggested by TR. Baffled as I have a Satori and use the updated profile. I'm not massively concerned as relative improvement is still perceptible but I'm disappointed I don't get the accuracy others appear to.

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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Wed Jul 24, 2013 06:03 am

onemoresolo wrote:I was basing my power on the graph presented here: http://alex-cycle.blogspot.co.uk/2011/0 ... rtals.html

It's completely unscientific but I'd put my FTP far closer to what's suggested by the chart than what's suggested by TR. Baffled as I have a Satori and use the updated profile. I'm not massively concerned as relative improvement is still perceptible but I'm disappointed I don't get the accuracy others appear to.


Well, seems to me that your TR setup might need a looksee as your Alpe ride does indicate a lot higher power output.
I use the Satori on resistance level 6 and use the gears to either spin it up or push harder.
I looked at your TR ride list and well. re test again... it's been a while since you used it :wink:
Keep it at 5.
If you can use a garmin HRM as well, always useful to gauge 'effort' after the test...
maybe do the 2 x 8 minute version..?. where you can better attempt full chat.

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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby onemoresolo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 06:36 am

I should say, I cancelled my TR for the summer as I'm always riding outside, I'm not just massively lazy (honest)! I'll be rejoining come autumn.

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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Wed Jul 24, 2013 06:46 am

onemoresolo wrote:I should say, I cancelled my TR for the summer as I'm always riding outside, I'm not just massively lazy (honest)! I'll be rejoining come autumn.


There is an alternative.(but it can test your patience at the same time) .. if you are using Golden Cheetah, there is a Satori Training profile in version 3... Gc is always worth looking at anyways.

onemoresolo
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby onemoresolo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 08:05 am

Thanks, I'll have a look.

I subscribed to TR foremost to improve my fitness and secondly to gauge an idea of my power output. It definitely did the former so it's only a minor inconvenience that the latter was inaccurate. And, despite my FTP figure being lower than it should be, the exertion required to maintain power figures relative to the FTP figure seemed appropriate. It's just less motivating to see a smaller number I guess!

I'm not 100% happy with the feel of the Satori anyway so may upgrade my trainer for this winter to one of the recommended TR ones and hopefully that wil smooth things out.

cerv50
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby cerv50 » Sun Jul 28, 2013 17:47 pm

After reading most (lol) of this thread I have decided to give TR a go. Bit confused re the ANT+ stick. Amazon sell one for £28 and a newer model for £40 odd, also the Suunto version. I have a Garmin 500 with the usual HR monitor, speed and cadence sensor fitted but which ANT+ device should I get please? :D

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MarkP80
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby MarkP80 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 09:58 am

cerv50 wrote:After reading most (lol) of this thread I have decided to give TR a go. Bit confused re the ANT+ stick. Amazon sell one for £28 and a newer model for £40 odd, also the Suunto version. I have a Garmin 500 with the usual HR monitor, speed and cadence sensor fitted but which ANT+ device should I get please? :D

I use the £28 Garmin version and it works fine. Plenty of people use the Suunto one as well though, and this is much smaller if that's a benefit (less likely to break it moving your laptop around?)
You shouldn't need to spend £40.

HTH,
MarkP
Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!

cerv50
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby cerv50 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:50 am

Thanks MarkP, cheaper Garmin stick has been ordered at a bargain price of £26.80 :)

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tim wand
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby tim wand » Mon Jul 29, 2013 22:00 pm

Okay I ve come to the party very late. Having posted on here tonight asking if any one uses Trainerroad and whats it all about, IMPOSTER (thank you) pointed me in the direction of this thread.

I ve read the first dozen pages and the last and I m genuinely intrigued so please be gentle with me.

I m going to set the spare bike up on a turbo (Understand list of trainers that are compatible is on the site)

I then need ? Ant compatible Speed/Cadence sensor (HR optional)

Ant Usb and Laptop (Running Windows 7 in my case)


Then I m ready to rock and roll ?


Best starting place is the 20 minute (Takes 1 hour) FTP test to establish lactate threshold baseline for future plans

Subscription is $10 a month.


Have seen the excellent T.M.H.N.E.T post about page 4/5 so think I can work my way through set up


More silly questions time? How do I sync it to Sufferfest Vids? (Currently own none)

Do I purchase them and then type in a licence number to TR or will it autosync them to workout if played through the PC's DVD drive.


As I say I appreciate this will be old ground and annoying to those of you have been here from the start, but after the Winter/Spring We ve had this year I am really looking for a safety net the Autumn Winter and figure the earlier I can get into this the more effect

cerv50
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby cerv50 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 05:24 am

Further to Tim's questions above I have a pretty dim question to ask as cant seem to find an answer on my own, DOH!...

What gear should the bike be in?

I am waiting for my Garmin stick to be delivered then I can sign up to TR. I have a Kurt Kinetic rock and roll so assume 4 or 5 turns of the screw to tighten the wheel to the roller same as when I usually use it but is there anything else I need to do?

Garmin cadence sensor fitted and also have HRM, looking forward to seeing how this all works :)

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MarkP80
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby MarkP80 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:36 am

tim wand wrote:Okay I ve come to the party very late. Having posted on here tonight asking if any one uses Trainerroad and whats it all about, IMPOSTER (thank you) pointed me in the direction of this thread.

- to which your own reply did make me chuckle
tim wand wrote:I m going to set the spare bike up on a turbo (Understand list of trainers that are compatible is on the site)

- Do you have your turbo yet? People have had different experiences with different turbos, particularly with power calibration.

tim wand wrote:I then need ? Ant compatible Speed/Cadence sensor (HR optional)
Ant Usb and Laptop (Running Windows 7 in my case)
Then I m ready to rock and roll ?

Yep, that'll do the trick. Many people use the Garmin speed/cadence sensor with success, I'm sure there may be others. Similarly the Garmin ANT+ HRM is used by many people too.
Then just an ANT+ USB stick and you're away (Win 7 works fine for me.

tim wand wrote:Best starting place is the 20 minute (Takes 1 hour) FTP test to establish lactate threshold baseline for future plans

Or you can use the 8 min test (takes an hour also) which I personally prefer, but it's up to you. You then might want to follow one of the plans. Intermediate Base 1 is often a good starting point, which incidentally uses the 8 min test, but you could substitute the 20 min test.

tim wand wrote:Subscription is $10 a month.
Have seen the excellent T.M.H.N.E.T post about page 4/5 so think I can work my way through set up

Yes, $10, can't remember what I see monthly. £6.50-ish I think. Setup is easy, but any problems and someone on here will help out.

tim wand wrote:More silly questions time? How do I sync it to Sufferfest Vids? (Currently own none)
Do I purchase them and then type in a licence number to TR or will it autosync them to workout if played through the PC's DVD drive.

- Dead easy. Buy the vids online and they send you an email with a link to download the file. Save the file to your hard drive, it's in Zip format. Unzip the file and you then have it saved in .MP4 format. It's not a DVD, although you can buy a DVD backup I think.
Start the TrainerRoad software and from their workouts, select and open the appropriate Sufferfest workout in a window. Then simply drag and drop the .MP4 file into the TR workout window. Then maximise the wwindow to full screen. When you start the session, the video is synchronised to the workout, simple as that. No licence numbers or anything.
If you don't have the videos you can still do the Sufferfest workouts from within TrainerRoad.

tim wand wrote:As I say I appreciate this will be old ground and annoying to those of you have been here from the start, but after the Winter/Spring We ve had this year I am really looking for a safety net the Autumn Winter and figure the earlier I can get into this the more effect

- The forum is here to help! From the popularity of this thread, I suspect you may get hooked. TR certainly makes the turbo great fun for me.

Cheers,
MarkP
Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!


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