why the training?

When drugs don't work: training and health tips!
Tom Dean
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Re: why the training?

Postby Tom Dean » Tue Sep 11, 2012 17:09 pm

Sorry, I didn't get that sense from the OP and his later post shows that's not what he is doing. You seemed to imply that 'zonal' training is only possible with a PM or HRM which is not the case. Your comments that 'blasting around' for long periods could only be of use anaerobically or that max HR could be reached for anything other than short periods confused me.

slunker
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Re: why the training?

Postby slunker » Tue Sep 11, 2012 19:33 pm

amaferanga wrote:
slunker wrote:Just my tuppence worth.

My club mate trains with power cranks meters HR and all other sort of gubbins. I train on feel.....sometimes hard sometimes out for a jolly and I'm afraid I get much better results in races and TT's than him. we started out at the same time but I seem to have progressed more.

I think all this data and equipment is a bit gimmicky and sold to people as guaranteeing they will get quicker. Of course if you have a coach analysing your data and tweaking your training it will help but I reckon this is only if your a 1st cat and above rider. I'm a 2nd cat at the moment but don't want governed by numbers and then not enjoying going out on my bike. I like to look at the scenery not a digital read out.

Just my perspective.......


Could it be that you are just better than your mate? So no matter how he trains he might never be as good as you?

As for your comment regarding guarantees of getting quicker - do you really think that's what people that train with power meters or other gadgets think? Do you think we're all just idiots that think if we spend a few hundred quid on a gadget then we will get quicker? One thing is for sure though - they're more likely to lead to improvement than that set of £2000 wheels or £3000 bike.

Power meters, HR monitors, etc. are aids to training. If you buy them and just ride the same as before then they'll make chuff all difference, but if you use them intelligently then they can help you get the most out of your training.

And if you're out for a ride and looking around and enjoying the scenery then you're not training whether you have a gadget or not. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. Similarly, just because you train with power or whatever, doesn't mean you can't just go for a nice bike ride just for enjoyment sometimes.


And who says I have a 2k set of wheels and £3k bike??????

Just my perspective of seeing a few people throwing money at gadgets (including bikes and wheels) and expecting them to be faster. As for looking at the scenery it's about enjoying the bike as much as blowing out your ars* very ride you go out on and then getting pissed off as you don't see any improvements.

Some folk are too serious about there riding. I train hard when I need to but also enjoy the social aspect of riding. People do get caught up on the 100gram lighter wheels will make you faster, using power taps will make you more powerful. I turn up to races and see this every week, but if they want to do this then batter in it's your money.

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springtide9
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Re: why the training?

Postby springtide9 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 21:53 pm

Some people feel numbers distract them from their hobby. Other people find figures useful as feedback to their hard work.

A bit of a pointless discussion/argument when we all have very different personalities and are motivated in different ways. It's like arguing black is white.

I think it's a case of each to their own and people should get on with riding their bike how they want to ride, rather than listening to internet opinions on 'how they should be riding' :D
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dw300
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Re: why the training?

Postby dw300 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 22:01 pm

Because I want to get to a good standard in 8 years instead of 10 since I'm a late starter.
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mmacavity
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Re: why the training?

Postby mmacavity » Wed Sep 19, 2012 16:24 pm


99thmonkey
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Re: why the training?

Postby 99thmonkey » Wed Sep 19, 2012 20:12 pm

I just ride each and everyday, sometimes hard, sometimes easy, Im always tired by the end of the ride / day and always ready to ride the next day (But I do ride tired) Im training for nothing other than to feel good and get stronger

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ju5t1n
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Re: why the training?

Postby ju5t1n » Sun Sep 30, 2012 22:43 pm

dw300 wrote:Because I want to get to a good standard in 8 years instead of 10 since I'm a late starter.

Why 8 years? why not get to a good standard in three years, or one?

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dw300
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Re: why the training?

Postby dw300 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 23:27 pm

ju5t1n wrote:
dw300 wrote:Because I want to get to a good standard in 8 years instead of 10 since I'm a late starter.

Why 8 years? why not get to a good standard in three years, or one?


Arbitrary numbers .. I figured it wasnt important and that people would get the point. But if you have a training regime that allows you to hit your peak in a year or even 3 you should be charging for it! :D
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Pross
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Re: why the training?

Postby Pross » Tue Oct 02, 2012 16:25 pm

I'm still very much at the stage of just riding my bike, sometimes harder than others. I suspect this is why my time trial times are modest and I am a 4th cat roadie. However, I intend structuring my riding through the winter ready for next season (which to me takes it to the level of training). If I could afford a power meter I would have one as I believe it is the best way of monitoring a ride and assessing what level I should ride at for the various types of session I need to do in order to improve the different facets of cycling ability. I do not think that a power meter is a way of going faster and don't know anyone that gullible (or indeed any manufacturer that makes that claim). It is simply a tool that enables you to monitor your work level and progress and like all tools needs to be used correctly to be of use. As I can't afford a power meter I will be using an HRM and will accurately determine my zones in advance. I could use perceived effort but unfortunately my biggest weakness is, and always has been, the mental side of riding which results in me convincing myself I am making a greater effort than I actually am.

If you are able to accurately gauge your effort then don't bother with 'gadgets' and you should get on fine. However, riding without any structure is unlikely to enable you to reach your potential. Again, you may just be happy to ride around enjoying cycling for cycling's sake - there's nothing wrong with that and I suspect the vast majority of Bike Radar posters are the same but as this is the training section it is generally inhabited by those who want to push themselves to improve their performance. For me, making use of the excellent advice given on here and using a tool to ensure I do things properly will hopefully enable me to hit the goals I'll be setting myself next season.

As for Strava, well that's just a genuine gimmick but it can add a bit of fun to a ride and get you to push a bit harder or try out new routes. It won't help you improve your cycling but can spice it up a bit.

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Re: why the training?

Postby okgo » Fri Oct 05, 2012 16:04 pm

Riding my bike sometimes harder than other times and sometimes for longer than other times is to this day all I've ever done. I've still not done an interval set, or anything like that, I use power so I can understand when something is a total waste of time, but it still doesn't stop me doing those rides :)

It really does depend on how much you want it, and how much time you're willing to put into cycling I think, a chap I know who has just got to elite has done so without a power meter, and pretty sure I've never heard him mention intervals, just rides his bike, hard, and sometimes easy, and races a lot.

I do like the techy side of things, and am interested in it, but thus far I've not let it rule my cycling, I do that on feel. But I think many people over complicate things, and I'd say its possible for most people to get to 2nd cat without really taking things too seriously.
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Herbsman
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Re: why the training?

Postby Herbsman » Fri Oct 05, 2012 20:31 pm

I'm sure training with power ensures no wasted training, and completely efficient use of your limited time. But the day I start measuring and analysing instead of just going out and riding is the day I stop cycling just for the fun of it.
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bahzob
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Re: why the training?

Postby bahzob » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:30 am

Herbsman wrote:I'm sure training with power ensures no wasted training, and completely efficient use of your limited time. But the day I start measuring and analysing instead of just going out and riding is the day I stop cycling just for the fun of it.


A perfectly acceptable POV. But I am afraid one that means you have also opted out of riding to the absolute best in terms of what you are capable of.

Which I am afraid also puts into context any other comments you may make about training.

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Re: why the training?

Postby bahzob » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:44 am

"I do like the techy side of things, and am interested in it, but thus far I've not let it rule my cycling, I do that on feel. But I think many people over complicate things, and I'd say its possible for most people to get to 2nd cat without really taking things too seriously."

Probably not true that most people can get to 2nd cat without taking things too seriously. But say for the sake of argument it is.

Then its probably also the case that, for the exact same amount of time spent training, these same people could get better results once they get to 2nd cat and/or progress to 1st if they trained smarter. Which to me sounds like a bit of a no-brainer. Why bother spending time training for something if you don't want to do it as best you can?

To read some of the views here you would think some people hadn't seen any recent cycling results or don't seem to understand why British cycling is doing so well atm.

TONY.M
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Re: why the training?

Postby TONY.M » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:41 pm

bahzob wrote:To read some of the views here you would think some people hadn't seen any recent cycling results or don't seem to understand why British cycling is doing so well atm.

Completely true bazhob. A decision must be made if you are riding a bike for a bit of fun or to compete seriously. British cycling success would not be possible if they trained in an inappropriate manner in a way and with similar attitudes that many amateurs do out of enjoyment.

Saying that many if not most lower level amateurs might not enjoy or wish to get into the technical and controlled aspects of properly constructed and targeted training, although if they are enjoying cycling the way they are doing and not making a living out of it then all is well whatever they wish to do.

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Herbsman
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Re: why the training?

Postby Herbsman » Sun Oct 07, 2012 17:32 pm

bahzob wrote:
Herbsman wrote:I'm sure training with power ensures no wasted training, and completely efficient use of your limited time. But the day I start measuring and analysing instead of just going out and riding is the day I stop cycling just for the fun of it.


A perfectly acceptable POV. But I am afraid one that means you have also opted out of riding to the absolute best in terms of what you are capable of.


So what? I'm not being paid to ride my bike, therefore I don't need to take it seriously. It doesn't matter if I don't ever reach the best of my capabilities, and it doesn't matter if I never win a race again, because cycling is a hobby, not a job. I could comfortably spend money on power meter measurement at the moment, but I wouldn't be able to justify it as I have more important things in my life than cycling. I'd rather spend the money on gifts for my loved ones, or a holiday abroad, or things for the house, or just save it for a rainy day.

People seem to be pushing power meters so hard lately, there are people banging on about how you should hire a power meter from them, questioning people's reasons as to why they don't use a power meter, as if it's essential, as if it's the be-all and end-all of cycling. I'm getting sick of hearing about them to be honest, not everyone can afford or justify spending such a large wad of cash on a power meter, and if people are happy to do without one then what's the problem? Other than the fear of being left behind by people who do use one?

Which I am afraid also puts into context any other comments you may make about training.


You'll have to spell it out for me, not quite sure what to make of this :?
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JGSI
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Re: why the training?

Postby JGSI » Sun Oct 07, 2012 17:47 pm

Herbsman wrote:
bahzob wrote:
Herbsman wrote:I'm sure training with power ensures no wasted training, and completely efficient use of your limited time. But the day I start measuring and analysing instead of just going out and riding is the day I stop cycling just for the fun of it.


A perfectly acceptable POV. But I am afraid one that means you have also opted out of riding to the absolute best in terms of what you are capable of.


So what? I'm not being paid to ride my bike, therefore I don't need to take it seriously. It doesn't matter if I don't ever reach the best of my capabilities, and it doesn't matter if I never win a race again, because cycling is a hobby, not a job. I could comfortably spend money on power meter measurement at the moment, but I wouldn't be able to justify it as I have more important things in my life than cycling. I'd rather spend the money on gifts for my loved ones, or a holiday abroad, or things for the house, or just save it for a rainy day.

People seem to be pushing power meters so hard lately, there are people banging on about how you should hire a power meter from them, questioning people's reasons as to why they don't use a power meter, as if it's essential, as if it's the be-all and end-all of cycling. I'm getting sick of hearing about them to be honest, not everyone can afford or justify spending such a large wad of cash on a power meter, and if people are happy to do without one then what's the problem? Other than the fear of being left behind by people who do use one?

Which I am afraid also puts into context any other comments you may make about training.


You'll have to spell it out for me, not quite sure what to make of this :?


I wouldnt worry about it, bud.
The guy is obviously going for his coaching badge, or if he isnt, what a waste of rather convoluted postings :wink:

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T.M.H.N.E.T
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Re: why the training?

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Sun Oct 07, 2012 17:51 pm

I'm surprised wattbikes and pedal technique haven't been mentioned yet :lol:

poynedexter
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Re: why the training?

Postby poynedexter » Sun Oct 07, 2012 18:32 pm

today on a "short" 50 mile run i went up the following hills:

carrowreagh hill, whinney hill, church road, amoung a few others. i didnt need any gadgets to tell me how easy it wasnt. i rode for well over 2 hrs without a sports drink or any gels at risk of collapse but i survived. i call it cycling and used the only pedalling system i know, the left right left one :lol: .

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dw300
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Re: why the training?

Postby dw300 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 18:37 pm

poynedexter wrote:today on a "short" 50 mile run i went up the following hills:

carrowreagh hill, whinney hill, church road, amoung a few others. i didnt need any gadgets to tell me how easy it wasnt. i rode for well over 2 hrs without a sports drink or any gels at risk of collapse but i survived. i call it cycling and used the only pedalling system i know, the left right left one :lol: .


That's 3 steep climbs right there!
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okgo
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Re: why the training?

Postby okgo » Mon Oct 08, 2012 09:26 am

bahzob wrote:"I do like the techy side of things, and am interested in it, but thus far I've not let it rule my cycling, I do that on feel. But I think many people over complicate things, and I'd say its possible for most people to get to 2nd cat without really taking things too seriously."

Probably not true that most people can get to 2nd cat without taking things too seriously. But say for the sake of argument it is.

Then its probably also the case that, for the exact same amount of time spent training, these same people could get better results once they get to 2nd cat and/or progress to 1st if they trained smarter. Which to me sounds like a bit of a no-brainer. Why bother spending time training for something if you don't want to do it as best you can?

To read some of the views here you would think some people hadn't seen any recent cycling results or don't seem to understand why British cycling is doing so well atm.


Agree, and that is why this off season and indeed next, will be a bit more structured as I do want to get to 1st and think I can get there ability , but I'm just saying, that isn't everyone's goal, as I said, you can ride nearly any race you want as a 2nd cat so for some people that's more than enough. I was chatting to a past national champ TTer who rides a few of the same races I do (he's a 2nd cat) and he says he doesn't bother with 'training' and just races at this level for fun, it obviously helps being known somewhat when getting entry to the bigger races, and obviously his natural talent is obvious, but not everyone in a 70 field in a 2/3 or whatever is that bothered about going up a level :)
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