When to down a gel?

When drugs don't work: training and health tips!
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T.M.H.N.E.T
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:08 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:
T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:stuff

Are you going to stop stabbing around in the dark with links and documents that are irrelevant to the statement you made?

People who eat real food don't bonk as much as people who use energy drinks & gels.


The floor is yours. Please take your time to provide actual evidence pertaining to your asssertion.


You really are making this a bit more embarrassing for yourself.


I stand by my statement.

People who depend on gels & sports drinks bonk more often than those who eat real food.
If you do not agree with me, that is your opinion. If you want to prove I am wrong get on with it - prove it. But please come up with some real evidence.

Generally the person who makes a statement is the one required to back it up. Since I have not disagreed or called bs, I have no reason to provide evidence. I have simply asked for yours relating to your statement made.

Please do that. You could always just admit that you have none

Trev The Rev
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Trev The Rev » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:18 pm

You have disagreed though so prove I'm wrong.

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T.M.H.N.E.T
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:19 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:You have disagreed though so prove I'm wrong.

No. I asked you to back up the claim you made,which you have not done. At no point have I said "thats not true" or actually disagreed.

So once again - please provide evidence that relates to the statement you made earlier. I would like to read it.

philthy3
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby philthy3 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:27 pm

If you care to do a search re your posted link, you'll find that the conducted test was aimed at items such as Gatoraid, Lucozade etc and not the dedicated sports products produced in the market by the likes of LA Muscle, SIS etc. And I get the point TMHMET is raising so why you don't is beyond me?
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Trev The Rev
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Trev The Rev » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:32 pm

philthy3 wrote:If you care to do a search re your posted link, you'll find that the conducted test was aimed at items such as Gatoraid, Lucozade etc and not the dedicated sports products produced in the market by the likes of LA Muscle, SIS etc. And I get the point TMHMET is raising so why you don't is beyond me?


What scientific research is there to back up the claims made by LA Muscle?

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T.M.H.N.E.T
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:40 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:
philthy3 wrote:If you care to do a search re your posted link, you'll find that the conducted test was aimed at items such as Gatoraid, Lucozade etc and not the dedicated sports products produced in the market by the likes of LA Muscle, SIS etc. And I get the point TMHMET is raising so why you don't is beyond me?


What scientific research is there to back up the claims made by LA Muscle?

He never said there was any. Only that the research linked(there was a subsequent Panorama program which I'm amazed you haven't linked to yet :lol: ) didn't include that area of sports products in particular,nor the appropriate demographic.

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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Trev The Rev » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:47 pm

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
philthy3 wrote:If you care to do a search re your posted link, you'll find that the conducted test was aimed at items such as Gatoraid, Lucozade etc and not the dedicated sports products produced in the market by the likes of LA Muscle, SIS etc. And I get the point TMHMET is raising so why you don't is beyond me?


What scientific research is there to back up the claims made by LA Muscle?

He never said there was any. Only that the research linked(there was a subsequent Panorama program which I'm amazed you haven't linked to yet :lol: ) didn't include that area of sports products in particular,nor the appropriate demographic.



The Panorama program was based partly on the BMJ report. For further reading I suggest you read Noakes. He is doing research now on the subject of diet and athletic performance.

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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:48 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:
T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
philthy3 wrote:If you care to do a search re your posted link, you'll find that the conducted test was aimed at items such as Gatoraid, Lucozade etc and not the dedicated sports products produced in the market by the likes of LA Muscle, SIS etc. And I get the point TMHMET is raising so why you don't is beyond me?


What scientific research is there to back up the claims made by LA Muscle?

He never said there was any. Only that the research linked(there was a subsequent Panorama program which I'm amazed you haven't linked to yet :lol: ) didn't include that area of sports products in particular,nor the appropriate demographic.



The Panorama program was based partly on the BMJ report. For further reading I suggest you read Noakes. He is doing research now on the subject of diet and athletic performance.

Yes it was. And it was grossly misleading on many levels.

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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Trev The Rev » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:50 pm

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
philthy3 wrote:If you care to do a search re your posted link, you'll find that the conducted test was aimed at items such as Gatoraid, Lucozade etc and not the dedicated sports products produced in the market by the likes of LA Muscle, SIS etc. And I get the point TMHMET is raising so why you don't is beyond me?


What scientific research is there to back up the claims made by LA Muscle?

He never said there was any. Only that the research linked(there was a subsequent Panorama program which I'm amazed you haven't linked to yet :lol: ) didn't include that area of sports products in particular,nor the appropriate demographic.



The Panorama program was based partly on the BMJ report. For further reading I suggest you read Noakes. He is doing research now on the subject of diet and athletic performance.

Yes it was. And it was grossly misleading on many levels.


The Panorama program or the BMJ report?

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T.M.H.N.E.T
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Sun Sep 30, 2012 17:54 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:
T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
philthy3 wrote:If you care to do a search re your posted link, you'll find that the conducted test was aimed at items such as Gatoraid, Lucozade etc and not the dedicated sports products produced in the market by the likes of LA Muscle, SIS etc. And I get the point TMHMET is raising so why you don't is beyond me?


What scientific research is there to back up the claims made by LA Muscle?

He never said there was any. Only that the research linked(there was a subsequent Panorama program which I'm amazed you haven't linked to yet :lol: ) didn't include that area of sports products in particular,nor the appropriate demographic.



The Panorama program was based partly on the BMJ report. For further reading I suggest you read Noakes. He is doing research now on the subject of diet and athletic performance.

Yes it was. And it was grossly misleading on many levels.


The Panorama program or the BMJ report?

The BMJ is correct(re: lack of GSK's credible evidence for example). Panorama misrepresented the information.

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amaferanga
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby amaferanga » Sun Sep 30, 2012 18:09 pm

This thread is fast becoming a joke thanks to the new forum idiot.

Gels and carbohydrate drinks are great for racing or on any ride where you really don't want to ease off at all to eat normal food. If the race or ride is less than ~2 hours then they're a waste of money IMO.

The argument that gels take up less room than real food is a bit ropey IMO. For example, there are as many calories in a slice of soreen (which can be squashed a bit to take up even less space) than in a gel.

That Panorama programme was also a joke. Anyone with a bit of knowledge of nutrition would realise just how misleading it was.
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slowsider
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby slowsider » Sun Sep 30, 2012 18:43 pm

Rulebritania wrote:Hi,
I've got a couple hi 5 gels but I have no idea when I should take one. I am a beginner so I'm pushing hard and managing 20-25 miles without gel but I'm going to push further on Saturday.



Save it for when you feel tired. It may make a difference either actually or as a placebo. Once you take it, the texture of warm snot is enough to make you turn to real food for the next ride :mrgreen:

Trev The Rev
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Trev The Rev » Sun Sep 30, 2012 18:47 pm

amaferanga wrote:This thread is fast becoming a joke thanks to the new forum idiot.

Gels and carbohydrate drinks are great for racing or on any ride where you really don't want to ease off at all to eat normal food. If the race or ride is less than ~2 hours then they're a waste of money IMO.

The argument that gels take up less room than real food is a bit ropey IMO. For example, there are as many calories in a slice of soreen (which can be squashed a bit to take up even less space) than in a gel.

That Panorama programme was also a joke. Anyone with a bit of knowledge of nutrition would realise just how misleading it was.


Please don't call me names.

I agree that gels are a waste of money if the race is shorter than 2 hours. If gels don't take up less room than real food where is their advantage?

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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Southgate » Sun Sep 30, 2012 18:59 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:If gels don't take up less room than real food where is their advantage?


The energy is released quicker than with solid food and puts less stress on your digestive system. That's why gels are good for whenever you put the hammer down, e.g. when racing, but also if you are pushing on training rides and sportives too. They are not magic bullets but they have their place in the ammo box, if you can afford them.
Last edited by Southgate on Sun Sep 30, 2012 19:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Trev The Rev » Sun Sep 30, 2012 19:05 pm

Southgate wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:If gels don't take up less room than real food where is their advantage?


The energy is released quicker than with solid food.


That would depend on the food. Speed of release is not that important, it is the timing you need to get right, the idea being not to run out of energy in the first place, not ride to the point of energy depletion and desperation.

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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby doyler78 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 19:28 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:
Southgate wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:If gels don't take up less room than real food where is their advantage?


The energy is released quicker than with solid food.


That would depend on the food. Speed of release is not that important, it is the timing you need to get right, the idea being not to run out of energy in the first place, not ride to the point of energy depletion and desperation.


It is undeniably easier to just get the gel packet and squirt it into your mouth. Real food generally involves chewing. Under intense efforts that can be difficult. It's great to live in an ideal world but life is far from ideal so best to have a backup plan.

What real food that you could actually stomach on its own can you take that releases energy as quick as a gel?

Just interested if your "real food" advocation is a long standing belief or if is a result of reading The Obree Way :D

Southgate
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Southgate » Sun Sep 30, 2012 19:32 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:That would depend on the food.


No. Liquids are digested quicker and with less stress than solids which need to be broken down. Gels are designed to provide calories and nutrients for optimal performance, and are generally free of fats and protein. They may well be overpriced and unnecessary for the average 'weekend warrior', but the science behind them is sound and settled.

siamon
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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby siamon » Sun Sep 30, 2012 19:52 pm

The pros seem to eat proper food out of the bags, like quiche, sausage rolls, pasties etc. Loads of the bars and just the odd gel? Whereas the gels seem to make more of an appearance on longer triathlons, but you wouldn't want a Scotch egg wedged in your number belt.

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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Sun Sep 30, 2012 19:59 pm

Southgate wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:That would depend on the food.


No. Liquids are digested quicker and with less stress than solids which need to be broken down. Gels are designed to provide calories and nutrients for optimal performance, and are generally free of fats and protein. They may well be overpriced and unnecessary for the average 'weekend warrior', but the science behind them is sound and settled.


I don't think there's anything(other than snorting pure dextrose) that would have a GI as high as an energy gel. If it didn't there would be little point.

But I think Trev is once again slightly confused. The speed at which food breaks down and releases it's sugars is known as Glycemic Index. This is not directly related to the Gastrointestinal tracts ability to uptake those sugars,that has more relation to the types of sugars ingested. IE: If your carb source can't be broken down as quick as it can be taken to the bloodstream via the intestine - you might as well pull over and phone the wife to come get you.

siamon wrote:The pros seem to eat proper food out of the bags, like quiche, sausage rolls, pasties etc. Loads of the bars and just the odd gel? Whereas the gels seem to make more of an appearance on longer triathlons, but you wouldn't want a Scotch egg wedged in your number belt.

The Feedzone Cookbook by Biju Thomas and Allen Lim is worth a read. It's fair to say they do balance out intake across sources though.

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Re: When to down a gel?

Postby Trev The Rev » Sun Sep 30, 2012 20:11 pm

I was not advocating trying to eat a steak whilst riding. Yes liquids are digested quicker. Personally I prefer honey to a gel. You can buy honey in little easy to use containers or make up your own little packets. You can mix honey with water. There are many foods which require minimal chewing anyway.

I only read Obree's book 2 days ago. I have been banging on about how gels and sports drinks are a big con for many years. With minimal thought and a little effort you can do far better making things yourself.


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