Training benefits of a Club Run

When drugs don't work: training and health tips!
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Herbsman
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Herbsman » Fri Dec 07, 2012 13:11 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:Isn't one of the reasons you use a power meter and analyse the data to make sure you don't peak involuntarily but peak when planned?

Regardless of whether or not one owns a power meter, sometimes life gets in the way of training plans. Life may sometimes involve doing more cycling than one had planned to do.

Trev The Rev
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Trev The Rev » Fri Dec 07, 2012 14:27 pm

Herbsman wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:Isn't one of the reasons you use a power meter and analyse the data to make sure you don't peak involuntarily but peak when planned?

Regardless of whether or not one owns a power meter, sometimes life gets in the way of training plans. Life may sometimes involve doing more cycling than one had planned to do.


One of the real skills in training is knowing when to back off and do less. In my opinion power meter data is easily misinterpreted and some people back off when it is too late because they were fooled and led by the numbers.

That said you need to be brave to back off when you feel good and the numbers are showing improvement.

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Herbsman
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Herbsman » Fri Dec 07, 2012 15:24 pm

True, but if you end up going on a training camp in an exotic location are you going to ride for the enjoyment (but record it for later inspection) or are you going to to tell all your mates to ease up on every climb, then cut each ride short to avoid excessive TSS accumulation while your mates carry on and have fun in the sun?

Trev The Rev
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Trev The Rev » Fri Dec 07, 2012 15:31 pm

Herbsman wrote:True, but if you end up going on a training camp in an exotic location are you going to ride for the enjoyment (but record it for later inspection) or are you going to to tell all your mates to ease up on every climb, then cut each ride short to avoid excessive TSS accumulation while your mates carry on and have fun in the sun?


Depends on the importance of the event you are training for.

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Herbsman
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Herbsman » Fri Dec 07, 2012 15:43 pm

Of course

okgo
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby okgo » Fri Dec 07, 2012 15:58 pm

Of late I've been doing harder stuff on my own then treating the club training ride as a more steady effort. On my own I have done 3 hours at tempo (in a controlled place) to the extent that even 2 hours on the normal roads is hard to get right with traffic and stopping etc, but solo its still a lot closer to where I want it to be. Of late the club rides (which are not club runs by any stretch 60-80 miles 20 mph avg) I can never get close no matter how many turns I take on the front they end up being endurance rides in power terms.

The only time I have found them really beneficial is when you go out with people much faster than you, which is fine if your club has that level of riders, or when you go out two or three up, as opposed to 7/8.
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rozzer32
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby rozzer32 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 00:04 am

hutchy_belfast wrote:Yeh essentially I am stacking them one day to the next at the weekends. Can go pretty hard on the turbo which is a fluid crono, using intervals etc. A few times I've needed scraped off the floor afterwards but can only really manage an hour to an hour 10 then I lose the will/ start getting sore. I feel like I need more base work which I'm much better at outside. Thanks for the advice.


Get out on the club ride then :roll:
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smidsy
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby smidsy » Sat Dec 08, 2012 14:29 pm

hutchy_belfast wrote:Too right, that wouldn't be hard. Not much point in using it as a recovery ride at the minute for me though, I'm not getting enough hard miles to needs one.


So get out on the cub ride and sit at the front and control the pace.

If the group needs to go slower you can always drop off the back and then do max efforts to catch back up.

If you are not doing enough why are you thinking the club run is no use?

The club run can be what you make it really. Attack the hills, drop off the back and put in a max effort, sit on the front and tow everyone else along etc etc.
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Tom Dean
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Tom Dean » Sat Dec 08, 2012 14:47 pm

smidsy wrote:So get out on the cub ride and sit at the front and control the pace.

If the group needs to go slower you can always drop off the back and then do max efforts to catch back up.

If you are not doing enough why are you thinking the club run is no use?

The club run can be what you make it really. Attack the hills, drop off the back and put in a max effort, sit on the front and tow everyone else along etc etc.


Can't agree with any of this, don't disrupt the group to suit yourself. If you don't want a social ride and you can't fit the club run in with your training, just train on your own.

ps 60 miles is not a recovery ride, however slow you go.

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Herbsman
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Herbsman » Sat Dec 08, 2012 15:35 pm

Ennit. Club rides are about cohesiveness, you should be riding together and looking out for eachother, not being annoying and antisocial.

fish156
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby fish156 » Sat Dec 08, 2012 15:38 pm

Tom Dean wrote:
smidsy wrote:So get out on the cub ride and sit at the front and control the pace.

If the group needs to go slower you can always drop off the back and then do max efforts to catch back up.

If you are not doing enough why are you thinking the club run is no use?

The club run can be what you make it really. Attack the hills, drop off the back and put in a max effort, sit on the front and tow everyone else along etc etc.


Can't agree with any of this, don't disrupt the group to suit yourself. ...

+1

mattshrops
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby mattshrops » Sat Dec 08, 2012 19:29 pm

A good club run will have an agreed target speed. Pretty annoying if someones trying to smash it all the time.
If you need more do an hour before(go hard) and an hour or two after. Enjoy the club run for what it is.
If you end up doing ~100 miles that should give you some training benefit :D
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Bigpikle
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Bigpikle » Sat Dec 08, 2012 21:03 pm

smidsy wrote:
hutchy_belfast wrote:Too right, that wouldn't be hard. Not much point in using it as a recovery ride at the minute for me though, I'm not getting enough hard miles to needs one.


So get out on the cub ride and sit at the front and control the pace.

If the group needs to go slower you can always drop off the back and then do max efforts to catch back up.

If you are not doing enough why are you thinking the club run is no use?

The club run can be what you make it really. Attack the hills, drop off the back and put in a max effort, sit on the front and tow everyone else along etc etc.


Try this on our club runs and you'll be told where to get off in no uncertain terms!

If they have an agreed structure then either take part, do your own thing or find another club. Club runs vary in nature depending o the club but I find them good for getting used to long rides, but in terms of efficient training, they are pretty poor as much of the time is either going easy in the group or really hard up the hills. I find solo rides more effective but over winter these are great ways to be motivated.
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Setarkos
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby Setarkos » Sat Dec 08, 2012 22:14 pm

mattshrops wrote:A good club run will have an agreed target speed. Pretty annoying if someones trying to smash it all the time.
If you need more do an hour before(go hard) and an hour or two after. Enjoy the club run for what it is.
If you end up doing ~100 miles that should give you some training benefit :D


Rather an unnecessarily high cortisol level with little training benefit...

Got a decent IF of 0.75 on today's 5h club ride. Spent around 80-90% on the front though...

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smidsy
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby smidsy » Sun Dec 09, 2012 09:26 am

As long as the group is not disrupted and noone is left behind then we have no problem with the actions of an individual at the back.

I take the points raised and my post is perhaps not well written but if the OP sits on the front and does all the work he can still get a decent ride out.

I accept that group rides should be cohesive (group) I suppose gives it away.
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poynedexter
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby poynedexter » Sun Dec 09, 2012 18:03 pm

i rode with 3 different clubs in the last 2 weeks,with each having a different etiqutte or approach. today for example some riders would sprint to the 30mph signs from quite some way out. meanwhile the group would keep a steady pace. i find that unless you are at quite a high level, there is plenty of training benefit on a club run. also my own club has a range of runs depending on what you want to achieve.

also if we were on a climb and some were struggling it was common for the strong riders to drop back and push the weary. i tried this and it hurts the legs.

mattshrops
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Re: Training benefits of a Club Run

Postby mattshrops » Sun Dec 09, 2012 18:29 pm

Setarkos wrote:
mattshrops wrote:A good club run will have an agreed target speed. Pretty annoying if someones trying to smash it all the time.
If you need more do an hour before(go hard) and an hour or two after. Enjoy the club run for what it is.
If you end up doing ~100 miles that should give you some training benefit :D


Rather an unnecessarily high cortisol level with little training benefit...

Got a decent IF of 0.75 on today's 5h club ride. Spent around 80-90% on the front though...


Depends on what you're training for...
6hrs -95 miles- IF 0.77 Not sure what you're getting at....
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