Cost per mile

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Torvid
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby Torvid » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:26 am

From what I've read, unless your a bit of a fat chap, estimating more than about 600-800kcals an hour on the bike is pushing it, that's riding around the PE level of 7 or 8.
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rubertoe
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby rubertoe » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:29 am

wyadvd wrote:
rubertoe wrote:Do Drivers not eat?

They do but the average male driver who commutes 20 miles a day needs to eat 2200 calories to cover their base metabolic rate plus the calories required to sit at a computer all day. A cyclist uses at least an extra 1000+ kcals on top of this base calories. Cycling uses 50 calories per mile roughly over and above base metabolic rate.

I cycle between 100 and 150 miles a week and need to eat around 4000 calories or I start to loose weight and there's nothing of me as it is!

Have a look at this links and YouTube this guy:
http://www.messarchives.com/messville/FOODTAX.HTM


I eat nowere near 4k calories a day. I dont lose any weight.
Last edited by rubertoe on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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daviesee
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby daviesee » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:21 pm

wyadvd wrote:That wasn't intended as a serious remark sorry about that, it was a ' many a true word is said in jest' type of thing! I have calmed down a bit myself, but in my first few years of cycling addiction, my wiggle and CRC accounts got a serious going over ! Lol

Smilies help to cover that. :wink:
wyadvd wrote:I would also say that the extra cost of fuel (extra food) is a cost of cycling reasonable distances that is often convieniently left out of the equation. The cost of an average calorie of food in the uk is £5/2200 kcals. Excluding base metabolic rate, it takes 50 kcals to cycle a mile. Therefore average fuel costs for a mile of cycling is 11p. This compares with a small car according to the AA.

I eat the same whether I cycle or not. The difference is that I lose weight when I cycle. I need to lose weight. Dieting without exercise doesn't work.
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.

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Kieran_Burns
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby Kieran_Burns » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:26 pm

rubertoe wrote:
wyadvd wrote:
rubertoe wrote:Do Drivers not eat?

They do but the average male driver who commutes 20 miles a day needs to eat 2200 calories to cover their base metabolic rate plus the calories required to sit at a computer all day. A cyclist uses at least an extra 1000+ kcals on top of this base calories. Cycling uses 50 calories per mile roughly over and above base metabolic rate.

I cycle between 100 and 150 miles a week and need to eat around 4000 calories or I start to loose weight and there's nothing of me as it is!

Have a look at this links and YouTube this guy:
http://www.messarchives.com/messville/FOODTAX.HTM


I eat nowere near 4k calories a day. I dont loose any weight.



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rubertoe
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby rubertoe » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:29 pm

Kieran_Burns wrote:
rubertoe wrote:
wyadvd wrote:
rubertoe wrote:Do Drivers not eat?

They do but the average male driver who commutes 20 miles a day needs to eat 2200 calories to cover their base metabolic rate plus the calories required to sit at a computer all day. A cyclist uses at least an extra 1000+ kcals on top of this base calories. Cycling uses 50 calories per mile roughly over and above base metabolic rate.

I cycle between 100 and 150 miles a week and need to eat around 4000 calories or I start to loose weight and there's nothing of me as it is!

Have a look at this links and YouTube this guy:
http://www.messarchives.com/messville/FOODTAX.HTM


I eat nowere near 4k calories a day. I dont lose any weight.



muttermutter... it's ******* LOSE not loose muttergrumblemutter


Corrected.
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

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craker
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby craker » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:44 pm

.... I too keep a geeky spreadsheet (to control / justify my spending urges)

Last year was 30p / mile (4800 miles) but I did get most of a new road bike.

This year I'm at 26p / mile.

Most of the cost is on the road bike which does relatively few miles. If it was just commuting miles and commuting bike costs it would be more like 5p / mile. Luckily for me :wink: I have to spend £6 per day to get my car into England and that justifies me a whole lot of bike accessories.

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Re: Cost per mile

Postby wyadvd » Wed Oct 31, 2012 13:05 pm

bompington wrote:
wyadvd wrote:
daviesee wrote:
wyadvd wrote:lets assume the average serious cyclist spends about 3 times more on his bike than the average motorist spends on his car!

Why assume that?
Seriously curious. My spending was the reverse.

That wasn't intended as a serious remark sorry about that, it was a ' many a true word is said in jest' type of thing! I have calmed down a bit myself, but in my first few years of cycling addiction, my wiggle and CRC accounts got a serious going over ! Lol

I would also say that the extra cost of fuel (extra food) is a cost of cycling reasonable distances that is often convieniently left out of the equation. The cost of an average calorie of food in the uk is £5/2200 kcals. Excluding base metabolic rate, it takes 50 kcals to cycle a mile. Therefore average fuel costs for a mile of cycling is 11p. This compares with a small car according to the AA.

This is not a very well thought-out calculation. It might be reasonable to assume that you could get most of your extra cals from carbs, which come in (tesco value pasta) at 60p/kg: that's about 40p/2200 kcals.
Moreover, your 50kcals / mile is a bit much - a fit rider going fast might just use that in total, but for most it will be quite a bit less.

So in fact, food-wise it would be less than 1p/mile. A bit different I think.


It was thought through on the basis of average figures available from offiical government figures relating to the average national spend on foood per capita (a fraction under £5 per day) and average per capita energy useage to arrive at a cost per food calorie accros an entire average diet. this in multiplied by what my strava and ebdomondo algorithms give as my average energy consumtion per mile. I find it to empirically pretty accurate in terms of my own calorific requirements on my mileage. My cycling tends to increase the volume of food I eat across the board not just one particular food group. Any earmarking of a particular meal to be used for use while cycling is a false way of looking at the way the body handles ans stores energy over a few days in my opinion. If anything to maintain a fit body one tends no need to eat a higher quality more expensive diet.

Any qualified sport nutrition experts out there ? I am not one,

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Re: Cost per mile

Postby wyadvd » Wed Oct 31, 2012 13:21 pm

bompington wrote:
wyadvd wrote:
daviesee wrote:
wyadvd wrote:lets assume the average serious cyclist spends about 3 times more on his bike than the average motorist spends on his car!

Why assume that?
Seriously curious. My spending was the reverse.

That wasn't intended as a serious remark sorry about that, it was a ' many a true word is said in jest' type of thing! I have calmed down a bit myself, but in my first few years of cycling addiction, my wiggle and CRC accounts got a serious going over ! Lol

I would also say that the extra cost of fuel (extra food) is a cost of cycling reasonable distances that is often convieniently left out of the equation. The cost of an average calorie of food in the uk is £5/2200 kcals. Excluding base metabolic rate, it takes 50 kcals to cycle a mile. Therefore average fuel costs for a mile of cycling is 11p. This compares with a small car according to the AA.

This is not a very well thought-out calculation. It might be reasonable to assume that you could get most of your extra cals from carbs, which come in (tesco value pasta) at 60p/kg: that's about 40p/2200 kcals.
Moreover, your 50kcals / mile is a bit much - a fit rider going fast might just use that in total, but for most it will be quite a bit less.

So in fact, food-wise it would be less than 1p/mile. A bit different I think.

There was research one at Harvard on fit cyclists which found that calories used increased substantially as speeds increased please see below from the well renowned website of IMMACULATE reputation , live strong:

The Harvard Heart Letter also took its estimates out on the street, so to speak. Using the same three hypothetical test subjects, bicycling at a leisurely 12 to 13.9 miles per hour burned 480 calories, 596 calories and 710 calories per hour, respectively. Increasing the pace to the range of 16 to 19 miles per hour rated a burn of 720 calories, 892 calories and 1,066 calories, respectively.

So using the middle of the above figures which vary by the weight of the cyclist, it takes 892 calories to go 17.5 miles (I assume on the flat) which =50.9 calories. This was originally calculated using power meters I believe.

In my opinion the average cost of an entire average diet is a not unreasonable way to estimate the cost of a calorie of food. How else should it be calculated?

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anton1r
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby anton1r » Wed Oct 31, 2012 13:34 pm

Bordersroadie wrote:Good thread (okay, so I'm a geek).

...blah blah blah...

Truth is the "savings" are spent on shiny bike stuff but, hey, I'm fit and healthly so what's the value on that?


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bompington
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby bompington » Wed Oct 31, 2012 13:35 pm

wyadvd wrote:...please see below from the well renowned website of IMMACULATE reputation , live strong...

Oh where's the irony font when you need it? :D

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Re: Cost per mile

Postby wyadvd » Wed Oct 31, 2012 14:08 pm

bompington wrote:
wyadvd wrote:...please see below from the well renowned website of IMMACULATE reputation , live strong...

Oh where's the irony font when you need it? :D



I was trying to smuggle that in undetected . Damn you spotted it!

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Re: Cost per mile

Postby daveski12 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 14:13 pm

Just done a quick calculation (based on what I can remember buying, and I am a beginner so have bought lots of stuff recently) including the cost of my bike and including 11 PPM on food I come out at 38PPM over 2652 miles.

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Re: Cost per mile

Postby alan sherman » Wed Oct 31, 2012 15:43 pm

I'm still using the bike I bought in 1992. There have been some new parts but it has by most depreciation measures hit zero value. That is good, it is only the consumables (tyres, chains, brake blocks, handlebar tape, tyres, tubes) plus clothing and recharging the battery for the rear blinky (front is a dynamo).

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Re: Cost per mile

Postby Veronese68 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 16:09 pm

When I started riding to work recently I started eating an extra sandwich every day. Bought from the sandwich wagon that pulls up in the car park that would cost £12.50 a week.
Prior to that I used to ride a motorbike. Petrol was costing about £12 a week. So it was roughly break even on fuel costs. Or, it would be if my wife didn't make my sarnies.

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6654henry
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby 6654henry » Wed Oct 31, 2012 16:28 pm

Difference in attitude after cycling to work rather than public transport or vehicle? Priceless.

:D

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daviesee
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby daviesee » Wed Oct 31, 2012 18:07 pm

6654henry wrote:Difference in attitude after cycling to work rather than public transport or vehicle? Priceless.

:D

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Godders1
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby Godders1 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 21:25 pm

wyadvd wrote:
rubertoe wrote:Do Drivers not eat?

They do but the average male driver who commutes 20 miles a day needs to eat 2200 calories to cover their base metabolic rate plus the calories required to sit at a computer all day. A cyclist uses at least an extra 1000+ kcals on top of this base calories. Cycling uses 50 calories per mile roughly over and above base metabolic rate.

I cycle between 100 and 150 miles a week and need to eat around 4000 calories or I start to loose weight and there's nothing of me as it is!

Have a look at this links and YouTube this guy:
http://www.messarchives.com/messville/FOODTAX.HTM

I don't doubt the numbers but I suspect very few people eat the bare minimum in calories anyway so the "fuel costs" for a cyclist will be much smaller in reality.

For example since I started cycling to work my additional consumption has been a banana (shortly after I arrive at work) and a glass of chocolate milk (when I get home) at a combined cost of about 40p per day. At 32 miles a day that's 1 and a quarter pence per mile (I think :lol: ).

I don't tend to go very fast, I assume that's another factor.

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Re: Cost per mile

Postby wyadvd » Thu Nov 01, 2012 00:11 am

Godders1 wrote:
wyadvd wrote:
rubertoe wrote:Do Drivers not eat?

They do but the average male driver who commutes 20 miles a day needs to eat 2200 calories to cover their base metabolic rate plus the calories required to sit at a computer all day. A cyclist uses at least an extra 1000+ kcals on top of this base calories. Cycling uses 50 calories per mile roughly over and above base metabolic rate.

I cycle between 100 and 150 miles a week and need to eat around 4000 calories or I start to loose weight and there's nothing of me as it is!

Have a look at this links and YouTube this guy:
http://www.messarchives.com/messville/FOODTAX.HTM

I don't doubt the numbers but I suspect very few people eat the bare minimum in calories anyway so the "fuel costs" for a cyclist will be much smaller in reality.

For example since I started cycling to work my additional consumption has been a banana (shortly after I arrive at work) and a glass of chocolate milk (when I get home) at a combined cost of about 40p per day. At 32 miles a day that's 1 and a quarter pence per mile (I think :lol: ).

I don't tend to go very fast, I assume that's another factor.


If you ate more calories than you needed before you cycled, then you would have a bit of adipose tissue (the calories dont just dissapear). Effectively what you are saying is that the cycling you are doing now is being fueled by the excess calories you consumed all those years ago. In the scheme of things the equation equals out eventually as over 60% of the energy for cycling comes directly from fat reserves, but it all has to come from somewhere (even if the food from which it was derived was purchased 5 years ago!) Me, I am skin and bone and have to eat like a horse to maintain my 69-72 kilos (depending on how recently the kids got dropped off at the pool) when I am cycling, not having significant reserves of food I ate years ago about my person. It takes around 140 miles of cycling to shift one kilo of fat by the way (7000 calories)

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The Rookie
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby The Rookie » Thu Nov 01, 2012 07:03 am

I've tracked all my costs in terms of purchases etc, also my commuting mileage and the amount saved on not running my car (at known cost), I haven't allowed for extra food which I reckon costs me about an extra 75p/day (13.4 mile round trip).

So far I have commuted 2971.6 miles, saving £926.49 and have spent a total of £429.20 on bike parts (both bikes home built), tools etc not accounted for as they are used on all the family bikes (all 9).

I use the 'profit' to pay for my mountain bike - I'll get my coat.

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Godders1
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Re: Cost per mile

Postby Godders1 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:39 pm

wyadvd wrote:
Godders1 wrote:
wyadvd wrote:
rubertoe wrote:Do Drivers not eat?

They do but the average male driver who commutes 20 miles a day needs to eat 2200 calories to cover their base metabolic rate plus the calories required to sit at a computer all day. A cyclist uses at least an extra 1000+ kcals on top of this base calories. Cycling uses 50 calories per mile roughly over and above base metabolic rate.

I cycle between 100 and 150 miles a week and need to eat around 4000 calories or I start to loose weight and there's nothing of me as it is!

Have a look at this links and YouTube this guy:
http://www.messarchives.com/messville/FOODTAX.HTM

I don't doubt the numbers but I suspect very few people eat the bare minimum in calories anyway so the "fuel costs" for a cyclist will be much smaller in reality.

For example since I started cycling to work my additional consumption has been a banana (shortly after I arrive at work) and a glass of chocolate milk (when I get home) at a combined cost of about 40p per day. At 32 miles a day that's 1 and a quarter pence per mile (I think :lol: ).

I don't tend to go very fast, I assume that's another factor.


If you ate more calories than you needed before you cycled, then you would have a bit of adipose tissue (the calories dont just dissapear). Effectively what you are saying is that the cycling you are doing now is being fueled by the excess calories you consumed all those years ago. In the scheme of things the equation equals out eventually as over 60% of the energy for cycling comes directly from fat reserves, but it all has to come from somewhere (even if the food from which it was derived was purchased 5 years ago!) Me, I am skin and bone and have to eat like a horse to maintain my 69-72 kilos (depending on how recently the kids got dropped off at the pool) when I am cycling, not having significant reserves of food I ate years ago about my person. It takes around 140 miles of cycling to shift one kilo of fat by the way (7000 calories)

I don’t think I was very clear.

Yes, previously I was overeating, that’s a part of the point I was making.

I suspect quite a few people consume more calories than they need to and so when going from driving to work to cycling to work they won’t suddenly find they are spending £18 per week extra on food (the cost to me according to the figures you mentioned earlier). They will simply be in better shape with minimal additional outlay on food.


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