'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

General bike chat that does not fit elsewhere
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Bluedoggy
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby Bluedoggy » Tue Nov 06, 2012 21:24 pm

diy wrote:Very bright lights reduce contrast and strobe lights disorientate, both impact a persons ability to judge speed and distance. So probably worth reconsidering ;)

When I used to teach advanced motorcyclists I road a full instructor spec Honda pan euro with high vis paint job and instructor all over it and still people would pull out in front. You cannot see someone if you are not looking for them. There is a limit to effects of high vis.

IMO - its most important to have lights/reflectors attached to moving parts as this catches the edge of the eye which is tuned to movement.


What do mean that very bright lights reduce contrast? Is that to on coming traffic?
I would have thought very bright lights in front would create very strong contrast of me to the traffic behind me??
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Ber Nard
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby Ber Nard » Tue Nov 06, 2012 22:12 pm

Peat wrote: ("must......over.....take.......bike........smaller........than.......me........regardless........of.......situation").


A few weeks ago someone crossed a double solid white line at the brow of a hill only to find a fire engine with lights and sirens blazing coming the other way.

Just tonight a car had to brake hard enough to lock the wheels it took them so long to realise they weren't going to get past me before the give way at a cross roads. I'd already positioned myself to turn right at the junction when they started their overtake.

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DavidJB
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby DavidJB » Wed Nov 07, 2012 07:15 am

Just a note about moving to the middle of the road before a traffic island. I have two near my house where people constantly almost crash into them / me.

Listen to engine revs, you can tell if they are going to slow down and adjust accordingly. Also I do a half turning signal if there is a car relatively close before I move out into the middle of the road...otherwise people just go further and further right then swerve in???! I find if you hand signal they generally slow and sit behind you.

If you just move out in to the middle of the road without signalling your intention and they have committed to overtake then you're going to get smashed up.

Also when you signal and you hear the revs fly up you know they're generally a dick so can slow your speed to let them pass. Yes, you've conceded the road where you shouldn't have had to, however, you are safe and alive. No point being right and dead.

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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby DavidJB » Wed Nov 07, 2012 07:21 am

A further general couple of saftey points I've learned over the years are

Always position yourself just under arms width from the kerb, but don't be a dick about it and hog the road.

Listen to car engines, you can tell a lot by the noise a car is making. If you hear a it revving like a ***** prepare yourself and move into the kerb a little just before it passes because its more than likely you'll get buzzed. By having the correct road positioning previously you allow yourself room to move in if you feel unsafe. After a while you can also tell when I car is coming close to you based on the position of the engine behind you...the ears are amazing tools and you need to use them...NEVER ride with an mp3 player.

ALWAYS make eye contact with drivers at junctions and roundabouts. You'll be amazed that you can see when people are a) not looking or b) looking right through you and take additional measures to stop. It also gives that human connection so they are less likely to be idiots.

If there's not enough room for a car to safely pass you ride in the middle of the road. They might get pissed off but you're not face planting the kerb...if in doubt make it so it's impossible for them to pass. Again don't be a dick about it the last thing cyclists need is a more 'militant' image.

Generally ride in a safe but considerate manner and treat other road users how you'd like to be treated. Don't RLJ, don't jump off an on of pavements. All this being said your safety is of paramount concern to you so do whatever you feel you need to do to protect yourself.

GBR1
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby GBR1 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 08:14 am

Peat wrote:I have recently started on the road after years on MTB's.

I have to say, 8 rides into my tenure and i have had 3 moments that have made me go 'woah!'

I would say that statistically, it's the same as riding an MTB, but the difference is that off-road, 9 times out of 10, its my own fault (too fast, too little talent) whereas on the roadie it has been because of berks in cars & vans ("must......over.....take.......bike........smaller........than.......me........regardless........of.......situation").

That doesn't sit too well with me, and i too was thinking its a matter of 'when' over 'if'.


This has been my situation for years, on the MTB if I crash its more than likely my fault. I only started riding on the road once I moved out of town, I am lucky and only ride on quiet (ish) roads, still had a few moments though!!

GBR1
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby GBR1 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 08:21 am

DavidJB wrote:Listen to engine revs,


All good till you get someone with a hybrid car, I never ride with earphones but man are these hard to hear coming up on you!

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ddraver
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby ddraver » Wed Nov 07, 2012 08:31 am

diy wrote:its a 50mph limit.


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diy
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby diy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 21:34 pm

Bluedoggy wrote:What do mean that very bright lights reduce contrast? Is that to on coming traffic?
I would have thought very bright lights in front would create very strong contrast of me to the traffic behind me??

Yes bright light reduce the ability of oncoming traffic to judge your speed and distance

Headhuunter
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby Headhuunter » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:17 pm

lotus49 wrote:
StorckSpeed wrote:Been clipped myself on 1 occasion years ago, cycling home into town on a 30mph stretch of dual carriageway, lorries wing mirror clipped my shoulder, just inches from my head. Really shook me up.
Reckon I used to be a kerb hugger, and since then I've moved away from the kerb into the inner tyre track. This means that people have to make a conscious decision to pass you and forces them to cross the white line. This little bit of psyche means drivers have to be more cautious before doing the maneouvre and unconsciosly give you more room......

Well that's the theory.....
Please don't let this close encounter put you off..... It's a great sport after all.


I recommend you read Cyclecraft if you haven't already done. It recommends that you move into the middle of the lane ie into the path of traffic in lots of situations (eg before left hand turns, at traffic islands etc) precisely to ensure that following drivers have to overtake properly ie only when it is safe for them to pull onto the opposite side of the road.

It is possible to get 6 hours free tuition on road cycling (based on Cyclecraft) as well. If you're interested PM me and I'll dig out the details.


Unfortunately IME if you ride further out in the road you just get a lot more close shaves, it doesn't discourage them from passing, drivers will still try to pass you but they will cut very close to you in their desperation to get past. I haven't actually been clipped by a close passing vehicle yet but a couple of times it's been VERY close, if I'd made a minor deviation from my line, I would've been clipped
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kingrollo
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby kingrollo » Thu Nov 08, 2012 17:04 pm

im slowly coming back to cycling after 18 months out. Of course I have lost a bit road sense - but driving standards seem to have got worse. I blame the turning off of the speed cameras

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diy
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby diy » Thu Nov 08, 2012 19:54 pm

Speed cameras just make people look at their speedos, just as artificially low limits stop drivers actually looking at the road and conditions to judge correct speed. If you want people to slow down for 50 yds and then drive faster, develop a hatred for police, clog the criminal justice system, lose pride in their driving skills and think that driving safely is all about driving slowly, then feel free to start a campaign. Personally I think robocop did far more harm than good.

awavey
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby awavey » Thu Nov 08, 2012 20:55 pm

Ive actually been closer to having my head knocked off by a bus wing mirror as a pedestrian walking along a not necessarily narrow pavement, but the guy was just too close to the kerb and had his mirrors super extended

but Ive certainly felt the brush of a bus on the arm or shoulder, more than once as theyve overtaken too close on my bike which isnt a good feeling, & then you get that draft and get rattled around and think I dont want to end underneath your rear wheels. :shock:

oddly closest Ive been to being knocked off, ignoring the time whitevan man drove directly at me because he wanted to intimidate me because he had a van and I was just a girl on a bike :x was actually an ambulance, so I guess theyd have stopped :)

but I was just cycling along a perfectly straight road could hear the road noise fine, and this ambulance who I obviously hadnt clocked as anything different to A.N.Other vehicle behind me suddenly let rip on the siren just as they got up behind my right shoulder,

I must have leapt about a foot in the air in surprise,completely lost control & contact with pedals and fortunately fell in not so graceful heap towards the pavement, and not the other way as Id have been getting a lift of them to the hospital if I had. and I still dont get why they did as the road was clear enough to pass safely, I wasnt in there way, there werent cars bumbling along oblivous to them, it seemed like it was deliberately to make me jump.

though as theyll be the ones collecting the bits WHEN it happens, Ill give them the benefit of the doubt on it

GBR1
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby GBR1 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 06:42 am

So it happened yesterday. not to me but my friend.. I don't know the full details yet, just spoke to his wife last night as he was in surgery!! He will be fine but was having surgery to repair what I think is damaged ligaments in his knee, his wife was pretty shaken up and didn't find out more.

Plenty of road rash and app the doc said that if the helmet didn't save his life it certainly saved a severe head injury!!

He was, as always lit up like a Christmas tree, high vis jacket, flashing lights etc etc etc, happened around 8.30am and the woman app didn't even see him!!!

thescouselander
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby thescouselander » Thu Nov 22, 2012 07:59 am

GBR1 wrote:So it happened yesterday. not to me but my friend.. I don't know the full details yet, just spoke to his wife last night as he was in surgery!! He will be fine but was having surgery to repair what I think is damaged ligaments in his knee, his wife was pretty shaken up and didn't find out more.

Plenty of road rash and app the doc said that if the helmet didn't save his life it certainly saved a severe head injury!!

He was, as always lit up like a Christmas tree, high vis jacket, flashing lights etc etc etc, happened around 8.30am and the woman app didn't even see him!!!


Here we go- what a ridiculous comment. How could the doctor know such a thing? Was he there, what did he know of the mechanics of the crash, is he an expert in this area. I think not. Doctors should stick to making people better rather than scaring people with comments that aren't qualified to make.

I hope your friend makes a quick recovery.

Tom Dean
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby Tom Dean » Thu Nov 22, 2012 08:35 am

thescouselander wrote:is he an expert in this area. I think not.
The area of injuries caused in road accidents? :roll:

dynamicbrick
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby dynamicbrick » Thu Nov 22, 2012 08:44 am

Waaay back in the dim distant past I was a motorcyclist. You learn fast on motorbikes, or you get hurt. The basic premise is to assume nobody has seen you and act accordingly - basic defensive road skills. I'm always slightly perplexed by the helmet cam warriors on youtube who fail to grasp this fairly simple concept or seem to wilfully put themselves in a position where something bad could happen.

About 20 years ago in Japan there was a study on motorbike headlights (at the time bike headlights-on was compulsory in Japan). They put car drivers in a simulated environment of pulling out of a T-Junction with a variety of vehicles approaching. It didn't matter whether the motorbike had lights on, lights off, flashing lights, or painted any number of silly schemes - the results were entirely inconsistent. They came to the conclusion that, basically, if the brain decides that there isn't going to be a bike in that spot, it simply won't be seen. Similar to that video of people having a pillow fight where a man in a gorilla suit walks across shot; not expected, simply not seen.

I've been lucky so far, but you make your own luck to a certain extent; one evening a few months ago I had some tri nutter barrel past me at 35mph+ in full TT elbows-in tuck, along Brighton seafront road (with side junctions every 100 yds). Lights or not, that's an odd and small profile for a car driver to spot, moving very quickly, and without immediate access to brakes.

thescouselander
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby thescouselander » Thu Nov 22, 2012 09:29 am

Tom Dean wrote:
thescouselander wrote:is he an expert in this area. I think not.
The area of injuries caused in road accidents? :roll:


No, in the area of predicting the survivability of a crash. The doctor might know about the sorts of injuries that can be sustained in a crash and how to treat those injuries but predicting the survivability of a crash is something else altogether - this is a very specialist area. I wouldn't ask an a&e doctor to do this any more than I would ask my gp to perform brain surgery.

InkZ
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby InkZ » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:32 am

I like the guy that rushed past me this morning then needed to turn left where I was so had to sit in the middle of the road and wait for me to pass on the inside!

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Pippi Langsamer
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby Pippi Langsamer » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:43 pm

If I ever get my ars* in gear to start commuting, I'm seriously considering wearing my GoPro just in case a situation arises where hard video evidence would come in very handy...

I've also seen quite a few instances where riders who've been cut-up/ buzzed have taken pictures with their smartphones of the offending trade vehicle/ reg etc. Many of these companies have Twitter accounts, and a few Tweets/ re-Tweets could have a positive effect on drivers being reprimanded by their bosses/ logistics managers etc.

Sad to even have to talk about these things, but....

GBR1
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Re: 'Not IF i get knocked off but WHEN'

Postby GBR1 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 14:47 pm

thescouselander wrote:Here we go- what a ridiculous comment. How could the doctor know such a thing? Was he there, what did he know of the mechanics of the crash, is he an expert in this area. I think not. Doctors should stick to making people better rather than scaring people with comments that aren't qualified to make.

I hope your friend makes a quick recovery.


So been in and seen my friend....

Basically he was doing about 20mph when a woman (French and new in town) pulled up to a junction and looked the wrong way and pulled out just at the wrong time.. She has said it was her fault etc etc..

So on impact the bike (probably) broke the head lamp which my friends leg then smashed into as he was going into the car tearing a pretty big chunk out of his leg.

It was the first responder that made the comment about the helmet at the scene, helmet has a huge dent where the foams compressed. He will be fine, had surgery last night to stick his leg back together and has more tomorrow as they needed to give it some time between ops..


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