The Chinese Have Begun!

General bike chat that does not fit elsewhere
Strith
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Strith » Sun Jan 13, 2013 08:11 am

That's not the case in my experience.

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Pinno
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Pinno » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:40 pm

i have just received a two week ban.
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Gren82
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Gren82 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:48 pm

Your entire post about morality was rendered completely void due to you being a racist prick

Froomes Edgar
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Froomes Edgar » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:51 pm

pinarello001 wrote:
Froomes Edgar wrote:
pinarello001 wrote:So long as the Chinky winks keep poaching Ivory, Tigers, Rhino horn etc etc, I am loathed to buy anything Chinese out of sheer principle.


Good thinking there. Luckily out of ~60 million British people not ONE has ever done anything morally questionable, so idiots in other countries can't possibly tar all of us with the same brush and refuse to buy British goods. Phew.


The world has moved on since the days of the empire - not that I have any shame whatsoever for the fact that we had the biggest empire. Moral relativism is flawed by the way - it was acceptable then, it may not be acceptable now.
So just because we (the British) have had some questionable morals does that mean to say we have to ignore the carnage wreaked currently by the slitty eyed immoral ba$tards from Chinky land?

In response to other posts - My Pinarello is an old Galileo made in Italy. My summer bike is a Wilier, made in Italy.
My microwave oven is made in Korea, my electric kettle is a Phillips made in Poland, my TV is a JVC made in the US (maybe Mexico).
Whilst its nearly impossible to avoid purchasing goods from China or goods where parts are made there, you can make choices.

If you do not care about the plight of endangered species and other serious environmental concerns, you can simply highlight all the hypocracies and do nothing.


Poe's Law I suspect. Well played - misspelling "hypocrisies" is a nice touch.

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Pinno
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Pinno » Sun Jan 13, 2013 13:19 pm

Gren82 wrote:Your entire post about morality was rendered completely void due to you being a racist prick


I was born in Kenya. My sister works for the Kenya Wildlife Services. I have witnessed the wholesale slaughter of elephants and Rhino as well as leopards and other big cats. We thought it had stabilised until recently.
The time and effort put into preserving and creating wildlife reserves is suddenly under threat because there is a race of people who see nothing wong with the barbaric exploitation of endangered species. I will if you like, find the news report of a baby Rhino who had its horn hacked out whilst it was still alive. The gamekeeper came accross this poor animal, totally petrified and dis-orientated, slowly bleeding to death. He had to shoot it. just because some Chinaman/Cantonese/Taiwanese thinks it will give him/her a better sex life. The horn weighed probably less than 400gms. WTF is wrong with Viagra.
Mary Sheldrick, Richard Leakey, Ted Goss (My grandfather in law), Ian and Oria Douglas Hamilton, even Jackie Chan... the list is huge, have put so much effort into the preservation of these creatures against all odds and it may be in vain because there is a race of people who make no moral or environmental choice. Anyone who is capable of such barbaric acts either indirectly or directly is as far as I am concerned, sub-human. So if that makes me a racist prick, then I am a racist prick. I am not going to go all PC and nicey nicey just because someone might accuse me of being racist and nor should it detract from the carnage being wreaked for vanity and greed.
"It's really tough to make a living, but a man's just gotta try" Disgruntledgoat - who owe's me 10 Goat Bucks

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stickman
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby stickman » Sun Jan 13, 2013 13:48 pm

Animal cruelty is disgusting and sick, but the countries where it is notorious also have millions of people who love animals and big animal rights movements e.g. http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... r-in-china , hating a whole country doesn't help the animals, target your hatred to the scum that deserve it.
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lotus49
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby lotus49 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 14:12 pm

Objecting to poaching is no excuse for racism.

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Joeblack
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Joeblack » Sun Jan 13, 2013 15:44 pm

Lets face it we've all been shafted with high prices and poor service in the uk now for years and only now are people voting with their feet and going elsewhere, and all these large stores wonder why they have no business
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Strith
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Strith » Sun Jan 13, 2013 18:47 pm

lotus49 wrote:Objecting to poaching is no excuse for racism.


Or stupidity.

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Pinno
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Pinno » Sun Jan 13, 2013 19:31 pm

Strith wrote:
lotus49 wrote:Objecting to poaching is no excuse for racism.


Or stupidity.


Stupid for having an opinion ? What say you ? Have you got an opinion or are you just jumping on the bandwagon?
"It's really tough to make a living, but a man's just gotta try" Disgruntledgoat - who owe's me 10 Goat Bucks

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nickyboy zz
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby nickyboy zz » Sun Jan 13, 2013 19:53 pm

ben@31 wrote:Makes you wonder the breakdown of the £140 for a Rapha short sleeve jersey?

Especially considering economies of scale where a manufacturer is buying, transporting and making in bulk. No way does it cost Rapha anywhere near £140,000 to make a 1000 jerseys.


I have bought several million £ of goods from, amongst other places, China and Turkey so perhaps I can shed some light on this.

Raw Material: The standard (polyester-type) material cost for something like the Sky jersey would be about £2. Of course it isn't standard material. I've not bought these specialist fabrics but let's assume it is really expensive, £10. That includes stuff like zips, buttons etc

Cut, Trim and Sew : This is pretty standard regardless of material (and is the reason that they are made in Turkey and not UK). This is less than £5 but let's be generous and say they use a very high standard factory that can command double this, so that's £10

Packaging: Next to nothing £1

Transport to UK distributor : Next to nothing £1

There might be some import duty involved but it won't be much so forget this. Total cost to the Distributor is £22

Now I don't know the distribution chain so I don't know if the retailer is importing directly or through a middle man. Even if there's a middle man, he provides a basic service for which he would be lucky to make £5 per piece. Total to retailer is £27

Selling price of £140 includes VAT of £23. Postage to you is, say, £5. So the net margin is £140 - £55 = £85

And here I have assumed maximum cost for all aspects of the production, the margin could well be more

So you have a product with few barriers to manufacture (if you're willing to accept that it isn't made from the "special material") with a high margin. Enter the counterfeiters

Froomes Edgar
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Froomes Edgar » Sun Jan 13, 2013 20:03 pm

Thanks, that's pretty interesting.

I'm just about to set up a company which can apply the special Rapha coating to any jersey for £50 a pop. Please form an orderly queue.

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MacLeod113
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby MacLeod113 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 20:20 pm

I've also have had a few of the 'imported' tops, some with bib shorts too. quality is good for what i want it for. commuting, the odd 30-40 miler and sportive. like many others i cant justify the genuine article due to the cost. i've had some of the tops and bibs 3 years now from Fleabay and samewood.com. no complaints.

i guess its just choice but i choose to shop at Asda not Waitrose, China and not Rapha etc.

at the end of the day, buy what you like if it makes you happy
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Pinno
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Pinno » Sun Jan 13, 2013 20:21 pm

Dyson is a good example of mark up. Initially held up as a great innovator, winning all sorts of industrial design prizes and waxing lyrical about British manufacturing and creativity. Then he moved his production to the far east despite being highly profitable in the UK.
There will come a point in China where people will expect higher wages and higher living standards and I anticipate the government yielding to some extent to keep the people happy (A nation of 2 billion must be hard to govern).
The resultant effect of higher wages etc will be that one day in the not too far distant future they will be on a par with the West in terms of profitability vs wage rates. Resources are still relativley cheap for them because they don't care where or how they get them from or what despot they support (Re.: West Africa, Angola, Botswana, Sudan etc etc). Eventually those resources will dry up.
We have the current problem that we are addicted to cheap goods and that habit is supporting ecomomies with poor wage rates, v poor working conditions and little or no care for the environment.
"It's really tough to make a living, but a man's just gotta try" Disgruntledgoat - who owe's me 10 Goat Bucks

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Strith
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Strith » Sun Jan 13, 2013 20:21 pm

pinarello001 wrote:
Strith wrote:
lotus49 wrote:Objecting to poaching is no excuse for racism.


Or stupidity.


Stupid for having an opinion ? What say you ? Have you got an opinion or are you just jumping on the bandwagon?


Lol, I'm not jumping on any bandwagon princess. Your posts don't really paint a picture of a critical thinker.

As bad as Rapha prices are, I got quuite a bit of stuff a few years ago in the sample sales and the prices where reasonable. Do people really pay full price for their stuff, almost everyone I know who owns Rapha buys in the sales anyway.

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Pinno
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Pinno » Sun Jan 13, 2013 20:32 pm

Strith wrote:Lol, I'm not jumping on any bandwagon princess. Your posts don't really paint a picture of a critical thinker.


I got your attention and you bit. I don't give a flying f*** that you call me a racist or stupid - you are entitled to your view. What concerns me more is that you still have not expressed an opinion about poaching or offered a solution to it.
"It's really tough to make a living, but a man's just gotta try" Disgruntledgoat - who owe's me 10 Goat Bucks

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MattC59
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby MattC59 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 20:38 pm

pinarello001 wrote:Dyson is a good example of mark up. Initially held up as a great innovator, winning all sorts of industrial design prizes and waxing lyrical about British manufacturing and creativity. Then he moved his production to the far east despite being highly profitable in the UK.


To be fair, James Dyson wanted to build his new manufacturing facility in Tetbury to bring jobs to the area, but the local NIBMYs campaigned against it. His answer (paraphrasing somewhat) was to say 'f*ck you then, I'll support someone else's community..... Where it's cheaper'.
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Gren82
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Gren82 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 20:46 pm

pinarello001 wrote:
Strith wrote:
lotus49 wrote:Objecting to poaching is no excuse for racism.


Or stupidity.


Stupid for having an opinion ? What say you ? Have you got an opinion or are you just jumping on the bandwagon?


I'm not having a dig at your opinions, you're entitled to them and fundamentally they're sound and I agree it's an issue that needs addressing. However the use of racist language doesn't help you cement your argument.. you can't hold an entire country of 1.4bn people accountable for actions of a vast minority.

There a bastards from all walks of life, if we applied your logic we'd all hate each other and that would ruin the fun of a Sunday club ride wouldn't it ;) .. which brings me to my next point... those animals being killed in Kenya, are probably being killed and butcherd by Kenyans.. so should I label you all immoral bastards too?

boogi11
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby boogi11 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 20:58 pm

Cycling really does take the pi$$ when it come to the price of the gear, no item costs anywhere near £60 to make , more like £7. Leg warmers 30. Shoes 70(cheapest I could find) shirts 40, jersey 40, gloves 30, helmet 40, it's so expensive, and it does not wear that we'll.

Garry H
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Re: The Chinese Have Begun!

Postby Garry H » Sun Jan 13, 2013 21:30 pm

boogi11 wrote:Cycling really does take the pi$$ when it come to the price of the gear, no item costs anywhere near £60 to make , more like £7. Leg warmers 30. Shoes 70(cheapest I could find) shirts 40, jersey 40, gloves 30, helmet 40, it's so expensive, and it does not wear that we'll.


Shoes are the most ridicuous in my opinion. I have some hand made Italian full on winter climbing/mountaineering boots that cost less than a pair of Sidis. Even their own motorcycle boots can be bought for less!


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