Are clipless pedals faster?

General bike chat that does not fit elsewhere
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ShutUpLegs
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby ShutUpLegs » Thu Nov 15, 2012 09:10 am

Trev The Rev wrote:
Considering the amount of money manufacturers ask you to pay for these pedal systems I am surprised they can not prove these systems are any better than ordinary shoes on flat pedals.


You don't have to buy them Trev.
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bompington
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby bompington » Thu Nov 15, 2012 09:13 am

Trev The Rev wrote:Dr Andrew Coggan found that clipless pedals are not faster and do not improve power or efficiency when compared to clips & straps or sports shoe on flat pedal.

http://www.academia.edu/238318/Coyle_EF ... _2622-2630

Considering the amount of money manufacturers ask you to pay for these pedal systems I am surprised they can not prove these systems are any better than ordinary shoes on flat pedals.

You want to forward that to Sky & BC, I'm sure they'll all be back on flats within days.

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Trev The Rev » Thu Nov 15, 2012 09:30 am

bompington wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:Dr Andrew Coggan found that clipless pedals are not faster and do not improve power or efficiency when compared to clips & straps or sports shoe on flat pedal.

http://www.academia.edu/238318/Coyle_EF ... _2622-2630

Considering the amount of money manufacturers ask you to pay for these pedal systems I am surprised they can not prove these systems are any better than ordinary shoes on flat pedals.

You want to forward that to Sky & BC, I'm sure they'll all be back on flats within days.


I know, I just find it ironic that the research by Dr Andrew Coggan shows clipless pedals are not 'faster'. We all know they must be because all the pro teams use them. There is however bugger all if any evidence to prove it.

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Mr Will » Thu Nov 15, 2012 09:59 am

They are better in so many other ways (comfort, ease of use, security pedalling, etc) that whether or not they are faster is somewhat academic.
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby jezzpalmer » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:07 am

Mr Will wrote:They are better in so many other ways (comfort, ease of use, security pedalling, etc) that whether or not they are faster is somewhat academic.



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iPete
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby iPete » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:20 am

Trev The Rev wrote:Dr Andrew Coggan found that clipless pedals are not faster and do not improve power or efficiency when compared to clips & straps or sports shoe on flat pedal.

http://www.academia.edu/238318/Coyle_EF ... _2622-2630

Considering the amount of money manufacturers ask you to pay for these pedal systems I am surprised they can not prove these systems are any better than ordinary shoes on flat pedals.


clips and straps are the devils work, especially those cheap ones that come with new bikes, riding those with trainers is bloody painful and if you need to get your foot out quick, it ain't happening!

As for price, M520's are £20, extortion :lol:

Basically what everyone else has said, comfort and functionality make them great, not extra speed. Although I've been told by several people to buy SPD-sl because they are faster than SPD :lol:

DesB3rd
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby DesB3rd » Thu Nov 15, 2012 17:52 pm

I know, I just find it ironic that the research by Dr Andrew Coggan shows clipless pedals are not 'faster'.


Coggan's work is now 25 years old (the year before my family got an Amstrad PCDD, which gives some idea as to the state of electronic monitoring gear); don't quote me but I have a feeling that more recent work conflicts his conclusions, noting very minor efficiency advantages albeit not the sort of thing that would advantage a weekend rider... Other factors.

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby cougie » Thu Nov 15, 2012 17:54 pm

Trev - have you ever had a foot slip off a pedal and you've b*llocked yourself on the top tube ? Just doing it the once will let you see the problems with flat pedals. :-)

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sub55
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby sub55 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 18:01 pm

Being long enough in the tooth to have used proper clips and straps with cycling shoes and grooved cleats will concede theres probably no power/ speed difference in them to modern clipless pedal systems. However, you dont see many riders these days with broken ankles . If you're comparing either of the two above systems with using ordinary shoes , simply theres no comparison . Though probably shoes have the bigger influence.
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Simon Masterson » Thu Nov 15, 2012 18:18 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:Dr Andrew Coggan found that clipless pedals are not faster and do not improve power or efficiency when compared to clips & straps or sports shoe on flat pedal.

http://www.academia.edu/238318/Coyle_EF ... _2622-2630

Considering the amount of money manufacturers ask you to pay for these pedal systems I am surprised they can not prove these systems are any better than ordinary shoes on flat pedals.


But did Dr. Coggan conduct these tests in 'real world' conditions? Or 'road race' conditions? I don't think he was even concerned about them; it does not appear to be important to his research at all. I have never met the man, but I somehow doubt that he would advocate the frankly ludicrous suggestion that road cyclists everywhere should switch to flat platforms. Why any intelligent person would do so is completely beyond me. ;)

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Bustacapp » Thu Nov 15, 2012 18:31 pm

I ride on flat pedals which have a clip on the other side should I ever want to try.

However why fix something that aint broke? The flat side are perfect and I love the freedom of being able to take my feet off in any given situation.

I like the option of sticking both feet out to the side as I descend mighty hills like some character off Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Sprool » Thu Nov 15, 2012 19:15 pm

Bustacapp wrote:I like the option of sticking both feet out to the side as I descend mighty hills like some character off Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
And the extra drag induced saves lots of brake block rubber when you want to shave a few mph off your descent speed.

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Pru
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Pru » Thu Nov 15, 2012 21:31 pm

DesB3rd wrote:don't quote me


Ahahahaa

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Herbsman
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Herbsman » Thu Nov 15, 2012 21:59 pm

Fool. Have you tried sprinting out of hairpins every thirty seconds during an hour long crit, using flat pedals?
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tiredofwhiners
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby tiredofwhiners » Thu Nov 15, 2012 22:44 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:Dr Andrew Coggan found that clipless pedals are not faster and do not improve power or efficiency when compared to clips & straps or sports shoe on flat pedal.

http://www.academia.edu/238318/Coyle_EF ... _2622-2630


I have scanned that link and can see lots of complex stuff about muscles and energy but nothing at all about testing people with different types of pedals.

can you point out the bit I am clearly not seeing ?

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Simon Masterson » Fri Nov 16, 2012 08:51 am

tiredofwhiners wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:Dr Andrew Coggan found that clipless pedals are not faster and do not improve power or efficiency when compared to clips & straps or sports shoe on flat pedal.

http://www.academia.edu/238318/Coyle_EF ... _2622-2630


I have scanned that link and can see lots of complex stuff about muscles and energy but nothing at all about testing people with different types of pedals.

can you point out the bit I am clearly not seeing ?


There's a very small section in which this is mentioned; it's practically a footnote. :lol:

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby lostboysaint » Fri Nov 16, 2012 09:01 am

Trev The Rev wrote:
lostboysaint wrote:No, they're the same speed as ordinary pedals.

I assume you're talking about dropping them from a building or something.

They may help YOU pedal more efficiently and encourage you to become a better and faster rider though.


How do they help one become a better of faster rider? Do you have any evidence?


Quote fail.

Try reading rather than looking.
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NITR8s
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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby NITR8s » Fri Nov 16, 2012 09:02 am

Simon Masterson wrote:than one hammer can knock in a nail better than another. '


Wrong! a hammer with better weight distrubition would work better than a pourly designed hammer, dont you know anything about physics.

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Trev The Rev » Fri Nov 16, 2012 09:04 am

tiredofwhiners wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:Dr Andrew Coggan found that clipless pedals are not faster and do not improve power or efficiency when compared to clips & straps or sports shoe on flat pedal.

http://www.academia.edu/238318/Coyle_EF ... _2622-2630


I have scanned that link and can see lots of complex stuff about muscles and energy but nothing at all about testing people with different types of pedals.

can you point out the bit I am clearly not seeing ?


Page 2626 2nd paragraph down right hand side.

Quote:Responses while cycling with and without toe clips and shoe cleats.
The blood lactate, heart rate, perceived exertion, and ventilatory responses to three cycling intensities ranging from 60 to 90% of Vo2max were not different when pedaling with toe clips and shoe cleats as opposed to when cycling with standard rubber pedal while wearing general athletic shoes. Vo2max was also not different under the 2 conditions. All 14 subjects were tested.End Quote

It is also discussed on page 2628, right hand side, where Coggan expresses surprise at the findings regarding pedal type.

Coggan being an extremely good and honest scientist who is entirely independent included his findings despite them not being what everyone might expect or it being the main part of his study.

There are of course many advantages in clipless pedals such as convenience and safety and comfort. I very much doubt Coggan would advocate using flat pedals for the track, road racing or even time trials.

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Re: Are clipless pedals faster?

Postby Simon Masterson » Fri Nov 16, 2012 09:24 am

NITR8s wrote:
Simon Masterson wrote:than one hammer can knock in a nail better than another. '


Wrong! a hammer with better weight distrubition would work better than a pourly designed hammer, dont you know anything about physics.


No, I don't know anything about physics. :lol:

But that's moreorless what I'm getting at. The point is that neither can increase the amount of force that the user puts into it.


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