Dear Admins

Where the BikeRadar team hang out. Discuss the website and the forums here.
richardprice
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All good

Postby richardprice » Tue Jul 10, 2007 20:19 pm

Hello,

Thought I'd say hello. I've been reading the forums and the fallout since the switch. There are a lot of good ideas (and well... hate mail) scattered around the forums, but well, it's good to get both sides to the debate.

Anyways, for my part, when we do an update of the site, would you like us to let you know with a post in the forums what we've done? I think we'll be doing an update on the weekend.

We'll let you know, so you can help us improve this place.

Ta very mush.

Rich. (a lowly techie at bikeradar)

We're listening, even with all the effin' and jeffin' goin' on.

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Big Red S
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Postby Big Red S » Tue Jul 10, 2007 20:21 pm

Personally, I'd like it very much if there was a thread into which you said basically everything you could. When changes are planned for and what they constitute, when changes have been made and where to comment on them.

I do really think that what most people are annoyed about isn't the fact that it's not yet right, but at the apparent complete lack of any coherent plan.

And the white.

St.D1ckie
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Postby St.D1ckie » Tue Jul 10, 2007 21:17 pm

Gavin_Weeks wrote:Im curious at what point we aren't listening? If you would take the time to search or just look around the forums I think you'll find John making various points regarding what we are doing to get the site up to scratch.


Do you have any idea how many days it would take to get 'around the [thousands of] forums' ....?
Kona
[LiteralBikeCo]

WMB's Dude-o
Richard

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John Stevenson
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Postby John Stevenson » Wed Jul 11, 2007 00:38 am

St.D1ckie wrote:Do you have any idea how many days it would take to get 'around the [thousands of] forums' ....?


Which is why I've moved almost all the discussion about the site to the BikeRadar Office forum.

Yes, we've been deleting links to other forums.

I'm baffled that anyone feels they have any right to link to forums that are just being used to coordinate the disruption of this forum.

We are working on improving this forum. All the disruption does is impede that effort.
John Stevenson

DirtJumper3200
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Postby DirtJumper3200 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 00:46 am

John, can i have an email address to contact you by please. I do not agree with that.

John
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Postby John » Wed Jul 11, 2007 01:12 am

john_stevenson wrote:
Yes, we've been deleting links to other forums.

I'm baffled that anyone feels they have any right to link to forums that are just being used to coordinate the disruption of this forum.



Maybe in the start there were 1 or 2 users using one of the forums to plan invasions, But we put a stop to that, The fact that people carried on with their own free will only demonstrates you have upset a lot of people by uprooting them from the forum they were happy with.

All I can see is this merger has blown up in your face and people wanting to go elsewhere. Its not just us, I have been watching the WMB and the C+ sections aswell and the same has happened.

This was a large online comunity and when you try to use them to make money you cant expect people to not get annoyed and do something about it.

From what I can see:

MBUK -> Left.
WMB -> Left.
Cycling + -> Left.

So who is stil here?

The admins, a few troublemakers and the odd person holding on incase things improve.

Please feel free to Email or PM me if you feel it needs discussing further, Or even reply to it here. Whatever.

Good luck with making 'something' from whats left.


John.

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Jaded
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Postby Jaded » Wed Jul 11, 2007 01:44 am

john_stevenson wrote:We are working on improving this forum.


Something which, quite frankly should have been sorted out before the change. Possibly even a mockup, locked, so that posters could have a look and comment on layout/colours/indexing/navigation etc.

It looks to me that all the effort went into the technical joining up of the separate forums, and very little into testing, or considering what the users might want.

The disruption of this forum needs no co-ordination. It is doing the job very nicely for itself.

(as an aside, I PM'd you John, but I've read in other threads that the PM system isn't working?)

mc
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Postby mc » Wed Jul 11, 2007 02:07 am

The way I see it is, the powers at be have quickly realised that the enforcement (I feel roll-out sounds to organised) of BR has been one almighty disaster. But instead of limiting damage by re-opening the old forums while they sorted BR out (what happened to it just being at Beta stage?), they've forced BR onto the user base, and ignored nearly all the issues raised on the seperate forums weeks ago.
Here's just a couple examples-
Usernames. We were assured we wouldn't lose our existing usernames, and any conflicts would be dealt with so a amicable solution could be met. The reality is, users were merged into one database with the simple solution of adding a suffix to any conflicting usernames, after any duplicate emails were removed. Which is fair enough, but when regular contributers lose their username to some non-poster, who's probably never visited the forum for the past couple of years, you immediately alienated users who provided a large proportion of forum posts. The only benefit to using this approach was to save some script writing by the developers, and the hassle of having to contact a few hundred regular posters to ask about usernames. Oh, and you can't delete any users, as that would reduce your marketing figures, and we couldn't have that.

Forum layout. So we were assured we'd be able to filter what sections we wanted to see, but low and behold, we can only have 4 filter options. So if I choose MTB, I still get a list of 21 sections. Yes, that's right, twenty-one sections.


Now as I've already said, you could have saved some face, by re-opening the old forums, but it's blatantly obvious that that's not going to happen.
So, now that the powers at be have suddenly realised they've upset a large chunk of their userbase, who un-surprisingly have headed of elsewhere (basic marketing principle there - if you don't supply the goods, the customer will go elsewhere), they're doing everything in their power, even if it's totally immoral, to prevent the loss of further users.

At the moment, all BR is managing to do, is create one hellish public image.


And is Admin aware that the P, in PM stands for Personal?
And just incase they're having a bit of problem understanding what Personal is, here's the difinition-
per·son·al Pronunciation (pûrs-nl)
adj.
1. Of or relating to a particular person; private:


Now I'm pretty sure that doesn't include Admin reading them first to sensor them.

John
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Postby John » Wed Jul 11, 2007 02:23 am

Well said.

KingstonWheeler
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Postby KingstonWheeler » Wed Jul 11, 2007 07:38 am

Censoring links to other rival sites is sneaky at best, at worst counterproductive. If you can't take the competition, up your game.

To be positive, what would really help would be something from the admin team setting out what they propose to do, not just "we're working on something". Maybe you could explain in a few of simple points what changes you propose?
Last edited by KingstonWheeler on Wed Jul 11, 2007 07:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cab
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Postby Cab » Wed Jul 11, 2007 07:40 am

mtb-rules wrote:Now I'm pretty sure that doesn't include Admin reading them first to sensor them.


Admin not having access to PMs is pretty much standard. I'm aware of no forum that allows such access. So what you're saying here is quite serious.

Admin, mods, is this true? Are you looking at/vetting any PMs here?

mmm_pie
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Postby mmm_pie » Wed Jul 11, 2007 07:57 am

If admins have access to PMs then that completely destroys the point of PRIVATE messages.

I'm baffled that anyone feels they have any right to link to forums that are just being used to coordinate the disruption of this forum.


That is absolute ****. Can you not see why you're creating a bad image with this?

They're not there to disrupt this one, its just another biking forum. Given the choice between a megaforum which doesn't work and has endless streams of issues such as above, and a small, friendly, communitive forum which is much like the old MBUK forum which would you choose, honestly?

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Steve Austin
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Postby Steve Austin » Wed Jul 11, 2007 08:07 am

All the complaining and posting won't change anything, in fact it possibly helps the cause of Future. they can still say we had XX (note only double figures) posts this week, so the traffic is still high.
Future ain't bothered by the 'content' of the forum imo

FUTURE are bothered about advertising revenue. I contribute very little to Future, but the various companies that pay to advertise in the mags on the Forum etc are the folk who need pleasing.

If folk really want to make a stand, stop posting completely and request your membership DELETED
The less forum traffic Future have, the less members they have, the less Advertisers will want to pay to advertise on this site.

Of course the alternatives will only survive with a committed hardcore of members that will fizzle out without new blood coming through

sorry if thats all terribly gloomy

MC1

Postby MC1 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 08:29 am

Morning,

No, we don't have access to your private mail, that would defeat the object.

Thanks.

MC1

Postby MC1 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 08:32 am

mmm_pie wrote:If admins have access to PMs then that completely destroys the point of PRIVATE messages.

I'm baffled that anyone feels they have any right to link to forums that are just being used to coordinate the disruption of this forum.


That is absolute ****.


It's not absolute ****, it's fact. Other forums have been boasting about 'invading' this one - why should we allow the open promotion of such a thing?

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Jaded
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Postby Jaded » Wed Jul 11, 2007 09:06 am

M.Cole wrote:It's not absolute ****, it's fact. Other forums have been boasting about 'invading' this one - why should we allow the open promotion of such a thing?


Aha, I understand now.

All the forums that people have gone to from here are planning attacks.

Now it makes absolute sense to delete links to them.

fleabag
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Postby fleabag » Wed Jul 11, 2007 09:15 am

Big Red S wrote:
fleabag wrote:Yea. I have no doubt I have achieved nothing other than annoying them. But hell, if they want to delete topics if they dont like them, they can delete 100 of them....


Frankly, I have better things to be doing than deleting 100s of your spam posts.

The bulk of the deleting doesn't fall on the dev team you seem so sure should be working harder, or on the person that designed the system that means it takes a while to change things, it falls on the otherwise regular users who said that they'd be happy to moderate the forum. It's been like this for ever, who did you think would be deleting your posts? Myself and Nick mostly.

I've nothing against you setting up a separate forum. Since that's where everyone is, I'm willing to use that to talk to the people I know.
But, please, if you want this forum fixed, contribute. If you don't care, stay away. You gained absoultely nothing from that spamming aside from pissing me (and any other mods who had to clean up) off and demonstrating that perhaps you are the kind of person the forum could do without.
Yes, I was expecting childish reactions from the bulk of the MBUK users, but not at this level and not from you.

I *might* get the point across

To whom?
And what was the point?


Sorry Avi

:( :oops:
:[

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ratty2k
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Postby ratty2k » Wed Jul 11, 2007 09:15 am

M.Cole wrote:
mmm_pie wrote:If admins have access to PMs then that completely destroys the point of PRIVATE messages.

I'm baffled that anyone feels they have any right to link to forums that are just being used to coordinate the disruption of this forum.


That is absolute ****.


It's not absolute ****, it's fact. Other forums have been boasting about 'invading' this one - why should we allow the open promotion of such a thing?


If that is the case then fair enough..... but I have seen people decamp and got to the other places. Many are missing and people that sign up here are missing out with people they built up relationships with. I sent a PM with a web address for the an other site and it was altered. I dont know if its an automatic thing, I suspect it is. But it seems unfair that a PM was changed. Certainly while I have NO interest in attacking this site, a pointless and stupid act, people need to chill a bit on all sides- mods, admin and posters. As I recon as many people are leaving because they read some of the abuse and see overlarge and sometime offensive images- although the one I'm thinking of has been removed????
My Pics !


Whadda ya mean I dont believe in god?
I talk to him everyday....

MC1

Postby MC1 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 09:36 am

ratty2k wrote:
M.Cole wrote:
mmm_pie wrote:If admins have access to PMs then that completely destroys the point of PRIVATE messages.

I'm baffled that anyone feels they have any right to link to forums that are just being used to coordinate the disruption of this forum.


That is absolute ****.


It's not absolute ****, it's fact. Other forums have been boasting about 'invading' this one - why should we allow the open promotion of such a thing?


If that is the case then fair enough.....

Thanks, it *is* the case.

Many are missing and people that sign up here are missing out with people they built up relationships with.

There's nothing stopping people still continuing those relationships here, if people are put off by the colour of the page [which will be fixed soon] and the size of the forum [which will be fixed soon] then those relationships can't be very strong. i.e. enough to sit out until the changes are made for the better.

But it seems unfair that a PM was changed.

We don't have the ability to change PM's

people need to chill a bit on all sides- mods, admin and posters.

Couldn't agree more - the less time we spend responding to flagged posts, the more time we spend improving this place.

Thanks ratty

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Gavin Weeks
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Postby Gavin Weeks » Wed Jul 11, 2007 09:44 am

It simply baffles me how some people can be so naive, phpBB as far as I have found has no feature to check PM's between sending, the ability to PM is switched on for everyone and cannot be switched off for individuals. It appears a lot of people are making up stories or simply being paranoid in order to fictionalise various "wrong doing's".

We simply cannot be responsible for outside links, let alone to external forums. There are far easier and more appropriate methods of sending a friend a link to another forum if you are that unhappy with the goings on here (including the fictional allegations of PM moderating).

And again as I said before people are failing to see beyond the forums, its 3% of the entire Bikeradar site, by what people are saying and the amount of complaints we are getting I would think it was the only thing on here.

Now it appears we are recycling the same arguments over and over and also playing a nice game of Chinese whispers.

Fleabag however earned himself a ban due to his spam of the same topic 78 times, luckily he was able to warn us so made it obvious it wasn't an accident. Yes it got our attention, but of course for all the wrong reasons, which then discredits everything he said before he began serving a ban.

I think the only resolution is to let us sort the forums out, design and functionality wise so we can make this place a much more exciting and peasant experience. The more complaints we have, the more we have to deal with them, the more spam we get to longer it takes to do the work. I've just spent 5 minutes writing this which I could have spent finishing the design work.


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