Caught b/catching separate race group - whats the procedure?

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bahzob
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Caught b/catching separate race group - whats the procedure?

Postby bahzob » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:43 am

Newbie question following unfamiliar set of events this weekend.

Took part in a 3/4 race. E12 race started half a lap ahead of us. 2/3 way through 3 of us broke away and nearing finish were clear.

On our final lap E12 bunch caught us. We tried to separate from them but they slowed a bit (think combination of using us as a chase target so easing when caught us and then taking a breather/jockeying for postion prior to their final laps).

On a climb we were actually going quicker than them. Some of their bunch said to let us go, others used us as a shield to try to break away. So real dogs breakfast as we crossed the line.

Post finish we were told we were DQed for riding with E12s. Argued case and fortunately got reinstated.

First time anything like this has happened to me but guess its a frequent situation where different races take place at same time/same course. Appreciate its not fair for lower cat riders to wheelsuck ones from higher race but equally its a bit rough if you make a break only to have to slow down and risk getting caught if higher group is not going that quick. Even more unfair if you break from a low cat race and catch higher cat bunch.

So would welcome any guidance/advice on rules of the road when this happens.

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Bronzie
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Postby Bronzie » Mon Feb 23, 2009 13:31 pm

It'll depend on the commisaire I think. The general ruling is that no mixing of the separate bunches is allowed, but as you've found out, it's not always that easy or clear cut.

Glad you were re-instated as it sounds very harsh to DQ you for their actions. A more pragmatic comm would perhaps say that if you join the other group, you are in their race (which discourages 3/4s from trying to join the E/1/2 when they inevitably come flying past as it's unlikely they'll be able to hang on to them to the finish).

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knedlicky
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Postby knedlicky » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:22 am

The rule is riders of one race who are caught by another race are not allowed to join the faster bunch and ride with them when the faster bunch continue to go faster.
I know this wasn’t your case, but even if it were, as I understand it, the caught riders can only be definitely disqualified when their infringement is very blatant or when they’ve not followed the directions of the commissaire. That is, the commissaire should first instruct the caught riders to separate themselves from the faster bunch, and only when they don’t do as instructed, can they be DQ-ed.
The commissaire needs to be on the ball and judge what's happening, including how the faster bunch are behaving.

In a way what the E12 bunch were doing, using you on the climb (as your tale implies), was, to me, not that dissimilar to a rider in a criterium for a while making use of a slower rider who has fallen back a round, which also isn't allowed. And at least in the criterium example, the slower rider is in the same race. Did the commissaire have anything to say to them?

bahzob
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Postby bahzob » Tue Feb 24, 2009 13:43 pm

In our case it all got quite confusing. The commisaire was in a car behind and was only able to pull parallel with the race on the final climb. At that time we were trying to disentangle ourselves from the E12 group in any case.

Like I said this is my first experience of such a situation, not taken part in that many races and all those were single category so no chance of same happening.

Know that for future will ask for clear guidance on procedure before race starts. (Guy in our race did actually ask what would happen if we caught the E12 group, I thought he was just having a laugh but apparently that has happened as well.)

oldwelshman
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Postby oldwelshman » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:14 am

I gave up trying to understand how it is supposed to work at MK Bowl. Sometimes the E,1,2,3 laps the 3/4's and they are let through, other times the E,1,2,3 start slow and the 3,4's catch them and it seems to be just one race.

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Simon Notley
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Postby Simon Notley » Fri Feb 27, 2009 13:19 pm

I've had the same happen to me whilst in a break - the faster race definitely slowed after it caught us and I was convinced it was slowing us so much that we were going to get caught. In the end we distentangled and they speeded up again and the break stayed away (possibly in some part due to the confusion), but I've never been sure what should have happened.


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