4th to 3rd Cat Confusion...?

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will040991
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4th to 3rd Cat Confusion...?

Postby will040991 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 18:44 pm

Hey... just asking on behalf of a friend who is a 4th cat, but had nine points last season and got 2nd today so thats an additional 8 points. According to British Cycling rules you just need 10 points to move up to 3rd cat and this has to be done on a 4th cat licence - it doesnt specify it has to be done in one season. This is opposed to going from 3rd to 2nd which I know has to be achived in one season. So, does this mean he will now be a 3rd cat, or does he have to achieve all the points in one season, which, I have heard rumours of despite what the rules state?

According to the official British Cycling rulebook:

3rd Category: Any junior or senior licence holder who has gained at least 10 but less than 40 points whilst holding a 4th category licence. Note: Riders are never downgraded to 4th category once a 3rd category licence has been achieved.



Which implies the points dont have to be earned in one season, as opposed to:

2nd Category: Any junior or senior licence holder who has gained 40 points during any one season whilst holding a 3rd category licence. To retain a 2nd category licence for the following season, a rider must obtain at least 25 points in events open to that category of rider.

Chip \'oyler
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Postby Chip \'oyler » Sat Mar 05, 2011 19:26 pm

I'm 99% sure that you have to gain the points to move up within a season
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JoeyHalloran
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Postby JoeyHalloran » Sat Mar 05, 2011 20:47 pm

Yeah, I was under this impression too.

NapoleonD

Postby NapoleonD » Sat Mar 05, 2011 21:57 pm

Needs to be in the same season.

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Pross
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Postby Pross » Sat Mar 05, 2011 22:25 pm

Pretty sure 4th to 3rd points carry on across several seasons until you get to 3rd. Once you reach third you never go back. That's why the description is gained 10 points whilst holding a 4th cat licence rather than gaining 10 points in any one season as all other categories are. I think it's a deliberate tactic by BC to stop people stopping short of getting 10 points to stay a 4th cat as some sad people would!

robrauy
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Postby robrauy » Sat Mar 05, 2011 22:31 pm

Has to be 10 points in one season. 4th cat points are not carried over.

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Bronzie
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Postby Bronzie » Sat Mar 05, 2011 22:58 pm

4.5.4 Each rider will start with zero points at the beginning of
each year (i.e. no points will be carried forward from
the previous year).

Lion-O
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Postby Lion-O » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:21 pm

contact british cycling direct to get a definitve answer. after all its up to them.

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Bronzie
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Postby Bronzie » Sun Mar 06, 2011 21:09 pm

The definitive answer is presumably the one in their rulebook (which I posted above).

mamba80
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Postby mamba80 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 08:24 am

I had 9pts from 2 races last season and asked the same question to BC BUT it is as above.... you zero back at beginning of season, its just that on their website it doesn t say what is in the rule book :)

PaulThomo
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Postby PaulThomo » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:45 am

When 4th cats were first introduced, it was stated by BC that it didn't matter how many years it took to get those 10 points required for upgrading, but once you go them then you stayed up forever.
This is the basis for why they have written the reg describing how to upgrade from 4th to 3rd.
However they seemed to have imposed this reg about zeroing the points at the start of each year for all cats including 4ths... Which is confusing as all other category descriptions already said that the points need to be gained during one season, but the 4th to 3rd reg does not, thus causing the confusion.

reg 4.5.4 needs to be removed as it's unnecessary, and you should add a bit into the 3rd cat reg.

Paul

Milese
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Postby Milese » Mon Mar 28, 2011 18:34 pm

As a 4th cat I got a 5th place, worth 5 points a few weeks ago.

I won on Sat so got 10 points, moving me to third cat with a total of 15 points.

Do I now have 5 points towards second cat, or am I reset to 0 once I got to third?

JackPozzi
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Postby JackPozzi » Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:06 pm

You'll have 5 points

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Pokerface
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Postby Pokerface » Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:15 pm

I had zero points last year as a 4th Cat. Do those zero points carry over to this year?

ozzzyosborn206
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Postby ozzzyosborn206 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:28 pm

Pokerface wrote:I had zero points last year as a 4th Cat. Do those zero points carry over to this year?


afraid not, they will have given you a new 0

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Pokerface
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Postby Pokerface » Mon Mar 28, 2011 19:32 pm

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:
Pokerface wrote:I had zero points last year as a 4th Cat. Do those zero points carry over to this year?


afraid not, they will have given you a new 0



My ex wife already tore me a new 0.

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Herbsman
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Postby Herbsman » Tue Mar 29, 2011 06:14 am

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:
Pokerface wrote:I had zero points last year as a 4th Cat. Do those zero points carry over to this year?


afraid not, they will have given you a new 0
:lol:

emx
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Postby emx » Tue Mar 29, 2011 07:40 am

JackPozzi wrote:You'll have 5 points


my understanding is that you have to have a 3rd cat licence in order to register points on it. Not sure the 'excess' points scored as a 4th will carry over into 3rd and effectively count towards a 2nc cat licence....

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Bronzie
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Postby Bronzie » Tue Mar 29, 2011 08:04 am

PaulThomo wrote:When 4th cats were first introduced, it was stated by BC that it didn't matter how many years it took to get those 10 points required for upgrading, but once you go them then you stayed up forever.

My take on this is that if you're not strong enough / good enough to gain 10+ points in one season, then it's fair that you stay 4th cat.

What advantage is there in becoming a 3rd cat (other than a bit of prestige) ........... probably that you can race with better riders at National B level, but let's face it, you're not likely to be able to finish a race at that level if it's taken you a few years to gain your 10 points.

morstar
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Postby morstar » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:34 am

Am I missing something with this here malarkey?

I read on the Salt Ayre web-site that you get a point for just entering a race. Are these different points i.e. just for the league, or could I get to 3rd cat just by taking part in 10 races regardless of how badly I do.

I am hoping to start racing this year and would love to become a 3rd cat based on ability and success but, conversely, I would hate to find myself as a 3rd cat if I couldn't even hack the pace as a 4th cat.


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