Chinese Carbon Road Frames

What bike and bike bits should you buy?
oli2001
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby oli2001 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:20 pm

nice one, looks decent.i'm sure you are pleased with it and definitely happy with the price!
i got knocked off last week, toptube busted. absolutely gutted :(
no reflection on the frame, as the car was doing 60!
luckily my chinese carbon wheels survived with just a broken spoke

User avatar
PeteMadoc
Posts: 2494
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 23:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby PeteMadoc » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:51 pm

oli2001 wrote:nice one, looks decent.i'm sure you are pleased with it and definitely happy with the price!
i got knocked off last week, toptube busted. absolutely gutted :(
no reflection on the frame, as the car was doing 60!
luckily my chinese carbon wheels survived with just a broken spoke


Sorry to hear you had a fall, I hope you got the drivers insurance details, should be easy enough to make a claim if they were at fault.

This is one of the reasons I went for a cheaper frame, the fear of trashing a £1000+ frame in a race or an accident is too much. If I crash then I won't cry about my £380 frame, I'll just replace it.

One day I might buy a Colnago master or similar for sunny leisurely days but for riding hard and racing, expensive frames don't make any sense to me.

oli2001
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby oli2001 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 13:03 pm

yeah, sorted with them. she was distraught and was keen to resolve without insurance involved. i priced the frame up as a scott foil (as it was a copy) so i've now bought a cervelo and made a handsome profit. i would have bought a chinese again but wrong time of year to be without a bike.

velodromerocket
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby velodromerocket » Wed Mar 13, 2013 16:20 pm

As well as customs clamping down I've recently heard a horror story involving trading standards.

Garage down the road had 6 frames seized, both blank frames and ones baring a particular Italian brand name. Apparently all of them classed as counterfeit and due to be destroyed.

User avatar
xpro
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 20:35 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby xpro » Wed Mar 13, 2013 16:49 pm

My customs experience couldn't have been simpler, but i guess, I was only importing one and it wasn't a counterfeit!

Sorry to hear you got knocked off Oli, glad you are ok and getting a new frame!
..........."And Pedro Delgado has sprouted wings!"............

oli2001
Posts: 318
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:56 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby oli2001 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 20:54 pm

cheers fellas, i must add though. my (now broken) chinese frame, although a copy based on a scott foil was not painted or labelled as one. Its simply a case of buying a chinese frame and putting my own label on it. Isn't that what ribble/ planet x do?
(ribble stealth= de rosa 838?) except i missed out the middle man. yep, you dont get the R & D costs but you pays your money, you takes your chances.
I guess the ride quality isnt the same as a £3+ grand bike but unless you race at a good level then the trade off is worth it? if you can pay the big bucks then fair enough.

velodromerocket
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby velodromerocket » Thu Mar 14, 2013 09:50 am

Kind of but it isn't just the brand names that are trademarked.

Certain design features of these frames are also protected, so even a blank frame if it has had the mould taken from a genuine one is classed as counterfeit.

A wavy fork and rear triangle design as an example, without naming the brand.

Manc33
Posts: 2042
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 15:03 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby Manc33 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 07:00 am

PeteMadoc wrote:It seems that customs are having a clamp down on chinese imports. A year ago it was unheard of to get a customs charge, now everyone seems to get landed with one.


I think when I buy one I will hunt for a UK seller with a used one or something. I always think "customs" is just a modern version of a kind of pirate/smuggler tax, where the pirates just got a lot more sophisticated and even made it acceptable to most people to just pay it.

When exactly was it voted for? I can't believe anyone would actually have voted to be charged money that way, doesn't seem believable if you ask me. Lawyers probably don't know, or can explain why it is legal to do it. It is anti-free trade. You can show laws about it, but that doesn't explain anything - like the ethics/morals of it and the financial loss it causes people, that just means someone made up a law and are using it to make money off you, it doesn't mean it is acceptable. "To stop people making money" is I guess one answer as to why we have customs. That is evil. :evil:

If someone risks buying chinese parts they should sodding well get them at the price they paid, it takes research to find low prices and quality goods etc.
FOR SALE: Tinfoil hat (never used).

Gozzy
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 19:00 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby Gozzy » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:45 am

That's quite an amazingly ill informed rant.
Smugglers only existed to avoid customs charges. It's quite an old concept. Everything gets charged import duty, just because you can search the Internet doesn't entitle you to avoid charges. I'm sure Philip Morris wishes he could use that argument.

User avatar
Monty Dog
Posts: 20382
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 14:31 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby Monty Dog » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:42 pm

Customs tarifs have been used for centuries to protect the sovereign interests of nations and provide a tidy sum for the exchequer - if you don't like it, you could always move somewhere else.
Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..

Manc33
Posts: 2042
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 15:03 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby Manc33 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 16:50 pm

How does Nike create a pair of shoes in the far East for £2.50 and then sell them in the UK for £90.00?

Why doesn't "Nike" have to pay UK customs to the tune of £87.50 per pair of shoes?

I honestly wouldn't rant about this if the Government ever explained any of it, like when did the public agree to it exactly, where does all this money go when we pay customs, why doesn't Nike or anyone else pay it... you'd think they would be falling over themselves to show you why it is fair.

Anything else involving paying money, the people you pay bend over backwards to show you the benefits of spending the money with them. It "keeping the nation sovereign" doesn't cut it for me. The nation would still be sovereign if customs charges didn't exist.

OK maybe a better question is how can I set myself up as a "company" and do what all the other companies do importing stuff and paying no duty on it? Can't grasp what the difference is between an individual that has to pay it and a company that doesn't.

I think it costs £20 to create a company (on paper). What if you said you're working with the China factory lol. Something has to give. What gets me is customs don't even prove you're going to sell the item and make money on it. 99% of the time we buy these items for our own personal usage, therefore customs duty doesn't actually make sense. You "might" sell it doesn't work either. You might run around naked with a traffic cone on your head. The moon might be made of cheese.
FOR SALE: Tinfoil hat (never used).

spanner239
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 18:11 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby spanner239 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 17:46 pm

Of course Nike pay duty, but they pay it on the value of the goods they are importing which in the case of your example is £2.50.

The price they sell the shoes for has nothing to do with import duty or import VAT (the sales price of £90 will include £15 of output VAT however which they will collect on behalf of the Government).

The Government do explain all of it, go on the HMRC website and it is all explained. The money collected goes into the Exchequer like any other tax.

Manc33
Posts: 2042
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 15:03 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby Manc33 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 17:54 pm

spanner239 wrote:Of course Nike pay duty, but they pay it on the value of the goods they are importing which in the case of your example is £2.50.


How can the value be £2.50 if people are prepared to pay £90.00 for them?
FOR SALE: Tinfoil hat (never used).

rafletcher
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:53 am

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby rafletcher » Thu Dec 26, 2013 18:24 pm

Manc33 wrote:
spanner239 wrote:Of course Nike pay duty, but they pay it on the value of the goods they are importing which in the case of your example is £2.50.


How can the value be £2.50 if people are prepared to pay £90.00 for them?


'Cos they find that cost acceptable for what they are buying, simple. Accpetable in terms of actual cost and effort to make the purchase. If they don't like the cost, they either don't buy, dont buy that brand/model, or try and source elsewhere (lke using the internet to search). But whatever, when the item gets imported, import duty on the amount paid (NOT the cost to produce) plus VAT on that total, is chargeable. You think those Chinese manufacturers aren't charging an equally high mark-up on the CF frames they're selling? Dream on. And it not "this government" (disgusting though they are) it's been going on for ooh, I dont know, at least 300 years (import duty I mean). Probably much longer.

Manc33
Posts: 2042
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 15:03 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby Manc33 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 18:31 pm

I even read customs have different duty depending on whether a watch has a leather, metal or rubber strap!

They must be absolute geniuses to know exactly what should be added to every single product.

It should be like the US where you choose to pay tax. They have an option to "file a 1040" or not. I even heard a radio host say on air he has never paid that tax in years and years. Think about how Income Tax is taken from your earnings before you even get your earnings, the legalities of that baffle me. It fascinates me this stuff lol, for all the wrong reasons. Kinda like a guy smacking me in the back with a baseball bat would fascinate me.
FOR SALE: Tinfoil hat (never used).

Gozzy
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 19:00 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby Gozzy » Thu Dec 26, 2013 19:12 pm

Where does all the money go when we pay customs? Manc33 what do you think taxes pay for? Where does the government get money for the NHS, defence, infrastructure and whatever else it pays for?
Are you trolling or are you seriously asking why government collects tax, of which import duty is one. You can't set up a business and then not pay import tax, it's just collected a different way to if you imported personally.

Manc33
Posts: 2042
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 15:03 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby Manc33 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 19:25 pm

I guess my main issue with it is no one in their right mind would have ever "voted in" such a thing.
FOR SALE: Tinfoil hat (never used).

User avatar
BenderRodriguez
Posts: 837
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 08:10 am

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby BenderRodriguez » Thu Dec 26, 2013 21:37 pm

Manc33 wrote:I guess my main issue with it is no one in their right mind would have ever "voted in" such a thing.


Only someone who wasn't in their right mind would vote against the provision of public services such as hospitals, education, roads, libraries etc. etc. etc., paid thought via central taxation. Not least because when such services are supplied through the private sector as part of a so-called low-tax economy, they are inevitably more expensive due to the huge rake off taken as profits by shareholders and the obscene amount paid to management and executives. What's more a large part of the public are effectively priced out of 'the market', with all the social implications this has.

Manc33 wrote: It should be like the US where you choose to pay tax.


Yeah right. The US with its 20% poverty rate and blind faith in Ayn Rand's doctrine of "the virtue of selfishness". :roll:

What you say convinces me that the government needs to raise even more taxes, it clearly isn't spending enough on education! :lol:
"an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.

carlxuereb
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 17:10 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby carlxuereb » Fri Dec 27, 2013 17:23 pm

Does anyone has any experience withe these frames fron deng fu ?
http://dengfubikes.com/product/detail.php?id=115,from this frame I'm mostly concerned about the aerobar that maybe it's not as safe and strong like vision,3T ...
http://dengfubikes.com/product/detail.php?id=137
any suggestions and thoughts ?

crankycrank
Posts: 1616
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 15:35 pm

Re: Chinese Carbon Road Frames

Postby crankycrank » Sat Dec 28, 2013 13:28 pm

Manc33 wrote:It should be like the US where you choose to pay tax. They have an option to "file a 1040" or not. I even heard a radio host say on air he has never paid that tax in years and years. Think about how Income Tax is taken from your earnings before you even get your earnings, the legalities of that baffle me. It fascinates me this stuff lol, for all the wrong reasons. Kinda like a guy smacking me in the back with a baseball bat would fascinate me.

Not sure where you got this information but it's completely wrong. There is no choice to pay taxes here, you pay or you get fined and/or go to jail and income taxes are taken out of each paycheck. The tax collectors here have more power to pursue tax evaders than the police have to go after murderers (no joke). We have many different tax forms for different types of taxes and exemptions which are a pure nightmare if you have investments, own property, a business, etc., etc., it goes on and on-example here http://www.irs.gov/Forms-&-Pubs Note that this is just a list of the most frequently used forms, not the complete list plus you also have almost the same number of forms to file for each state you live or do business in. None of the taxes are by choice. The person on the radio is just biding his time before the tax man comes to get him. There are groups such as this which claim that taxation is unconstitutional and don't pay taxes but most end up in deep shite with the government eventually. Just ask the actor Wesley Snipes how his refusal to pay taxes turned out http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/24/snipes.sentencing/. This is how the Mafia was first prosecuted in the US. It was for tax evasion, not murder, larceny, extortion, bribes or any of the other crimes they were doing. In the UK you get the national treasure that is the BBC, we get Rupert Murdoch's FOX News to supply the news and TV programs. You get socialized health care but many of us pay for our own and is generally very expensive and not quite as good as the average Brit gets from your government. Roughly 1 in 8 people here don't have medical insurance due to the high cost and just do without medical care unless it's life threatening.
Now back to the Chinese frame discussion. 8)


Return to “Road Buying Advice”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests