Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

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Mccaria
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby Mccaria » Thu Oct 04, 2012 17:17 pm

Also you can take up to 25% of your pension pot as a lump sum tax free at the point of retirement.

NickintheLakes
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby NickintheLakes » Thu Oct 04, 2012 17:26 pm

Private pensions are a bit like gambling - and like the Bookmakers there is only one winner.

Male retires at 65/6 gets 25% of the pot and some derisory low rate annuity payment then dies at 74. Pension company laughing all the way to the bank with their 75% + what they have made on it in the intervening 8 years (less what they have paid to you of course).

PedroJake
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby PedroJake » Thu Oct 04, 2012 18:41 pm

NickintheLakes wrote:Private pensions are a bit like gambling - and like the Bookmakers there is only one winner.

Male retires at 65/6 gets 25% of the pot and some derisory low rate annuity payment then dies at 74. Pension company laughing all the way to the bank with their 75% + what they have made on it in the intervening 8 years (less what they have paid to you of course).


Jesus Christ, what a load of bull. how's it like gambling?

Never mind the tax relief, the growth on investment, the fact that with us living longer we may last 20,30, 40 years, add to this that you don't have to buy a crap annuity, there are alternatives, but here, why let some facts get in the way of your post

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby Rick Chasey » Fri Oct 05, 2012 09:52 am

Depends how much you have, what your ideal time period is for the investment, and how much of that cash you might need access to over various time periods.

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby Rick Chasey » Fri Oct 05, 2012 09:57 am

Unfortunately pensions aren't as advantageous as they used to be, but the advantage is that it's tax free saving at the front end (you pay tax on the money you draw out as a pensioner) and you'll have a pretty long term view so you can ride out the week-to-week through to year-to-year fluctuations as long as the long term trend is upwards.

Most pension managers will say to you that the main thing is that you have a good relationship with them and you trust them.

That's certainly true, you need that element, but it's all pointless if they invest your money badly.

Depending on how much time you have and how much control you want, my advice would be to look at fund manager's performance over the past 5-10 years, considering the market conditions at each year to evaluate how well they do, and in what markets they do best in.

I'd then suggest making sure your money follows your preferred fund manager as he moves around the different firms rather than sticking with the firm.

Some pensions will do that process for you at a cost. It's up to you to evaluate how much that cost is worth it.

And don't be swayed by fancy offices and being treated with champagne (though do be put off by skanky offices..). You're paying for that.

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daviesee
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby daviesee » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:10 am

Self contradictory.
For a fund manager to have loads of experience and a good track record, you have to ponder why he hasn't accumulated enough to retire himself.
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.

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Pross
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby Pross » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:55 pm

dw300 wrote:Ok, thanks for all the advise so far chaps .. regarding pensions ..

I'm probably over simplifying this, but would I be close to the mark in saying that employers will generally match your contributions (possibly adding a percent or two) .. you'll save on the tax as it lowers your taxable income, and then the pension is taxed when it is paid (im assuming its similar to income tax in that the first £xxxx are a tax free amount)?


You can salary sacrifice into your pension for example if you earn £30k per year you could opt to salary sacrifice (say) £2k of that so it goes into your pension directly. Your salary becomes £28k and neither you or the employer pay any NI contributions on the £2k. If you have a reasonable employer they should let you have the whole of their NI savings paid into your pension on top of the £2k (the employer may not put the full amount in or may not put any of it in). If you are making your own pension contributions this should be the most efficient way to do it and your employer should be agreeable to it as it costs them nothing and potentially saves them money.

mamba80
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby mamba80 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 13:21 pm

PedroJake wrote:
NickintheLakes wrote:Private pensions are a bit like gambling - and like the Bookmakers there is only one winner.

Male retires at 65/6 gets 25% of the pot and some derisory low rate annuity payment then dies at 74. Pension company laughing all the way to the bank with their 75% + what they have made on it in the intervening 8 years (less what they have paid to you of course).


Never mind the tax relief, the growth on investment, the fact that with us living longer we may last 20,30, 40 years, add to this that you don't have to buy a crap annuity, there are alternatives, but here, why let some facts get in the way of your post


what alternatives to an annuity are there? Pension drawdown is full of risk and it would be easy to end up far worse off than buying an annuity - as annuity and investment rates fall even further!
at the end of the day, rates are at historic lows, due to... we are living longer! and seriously, are you suggesting that i may live to 108 ???
Phased Annuity is a possibilty but then i get even less to live on.

Pensions are a legalised con, the only winners are the fund managers themselves, have you ever looked round the u/g carparks in the city of london? If your on final salary and work in the public sector then they r excellent but in the private sector...as the duck would say... NO!

confused@BR
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby confused@BR » Fri Oct 05, 2012 15:21 pm

Another reason for the poor rates of annuities is the Government's policy of Quantitative Easing (AKA Printing Money) in buying up Gilts they are destroying the market on which annuity rates are based.

There are three basic stages in ones view of pensions:

a) twenties and thirties, too far away to be interesting, do nothing.

b) forties and fifties, to late to rectify the damage caused by Stage A, panic.

c) sixties plus, now you find that it did not matter what you did in A & B you are shafted anyway!

Yes, you are right, I have reached Stage C.

BTW Annuity rates may be rubbish but have you seen savings rates?

My (Late) father-in-law, who was a Finance Director of a Listed Company, reckoned that this Pension lark was easy if you knew when you were going to die.
'fool'

NickintheLakes
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby NickintheLakes » Fri Oct 05, 2012 16:48 pm

PedroJake wrote:
NickintheLakes wrote:Private pensions are a bit like gambling - and like the Bookmakers there is only one winner.

Male retires at 65/6 gets 25% of the pot and some derisory low rate annuity payment then dies at 74. Pension company laughing all the way to the bank with their 75% + what they have made on it in the intervening 8 years (less what they have paid to you of course).


Jesus Christ, what a load of bull. how's it like gambling?

Never mind the tax relief, the growth on investment, the fact that with us living longer we may last 20,30, 40 years, add to this that you don't have to buy a crap annuity, there are alternatives, but here, why let some facts get in the way of your post


Firstly; no need to be sarcastic when replying to posts.

Secondly; this is why it's like gambling. You pay money into a pension fund and you are gambling on getting a better final return than eg investing in property or a self-selected portfolio of shares.

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daviesee
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby daviesee » Fri Oct 05, 2012 17:41 pm

NickintheLakes wrote:Secondly; this is why it's like gambling. You pay money into a pension fund and you are gambling on getting a better final return than eg investing in property or a self-selected portfolio of shares.

I have a pension. I select the portfolio and this can include trusts based on property.
Next objection........ :wink:
That said. Shares are just like gambling. You make an educated guess but guys that bet on horses would say the same.
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.

Lookyhere
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby Lookyhere » Fri Oct 05, 2012 18:57 pm

OH NO ! You havnt have you?

OECD - UK House Prices Need To Fall 40% !
"For both the US and the euro area the indicator crossed the long-term average in 2003 and reached new peaks in 2005 (US) and 2006 (euro area), respectively, with levels 12% to 18% above the long-term average. However, the regional differences were significant, with price-income ratios topping the long-term average by more than 40% in UK, Spain, Ireland, Finland and the Netherlands."

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Team4Luke
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby Team4Luke » Fri Oct 05, 2012 19:08 pm

has your new job offered you a pension if not they must now do so from this month, you can opt out if you wish.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Pensionsand ... /DG_183783
Team4Luke supports Cardiac Risk in the Young

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daviesee
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby daviesee » Fri Oct 05, 2012 21:34 pm

Lookyhere wrote:OH NO ! You havnt have you?

If that was addressed at me, then - no. One of the various options that I declined.
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby Rick Chasey » Fri Oct 05, 2012 21:40 pm

confused@BR wrote:Another reason for the poor rates of annuities is the Government's policy of Quantitative Easing (AKA Printing Money) in buying up Gilts they are destroying the market on which annuity rates are based.

There are three basic stages in ones view of pensions:

a) twenties and thirties, too far away to be interesting, do nothing.

b) forties and fifties, to late to rectify the damage caused by Stage A, panic.

c) sixties plus, now you find that it did not matter what you did in A & B you are shafted anyway!

Yes, you are right, I have reached Stage C.

BTW Annuity rates may be rubbish but have you seen savings rates?

My (Late) father-in-law, who was a Finance Director of a Listed Company, reckoned that this Pension lark was easy if you knew when you were going to die.


Take your money out of gilt based funds!

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby Rick Chasey » Fri Oct 05, 2012 21:42 pm

daviesee wrote:Self contradictory.
For a fund manager to have loads of experience and a good track record, you have to ponder why he hasn't accumulated enough to retire himself.


Not really.

If you get into fund management, retiring because you 'have enough' isn't really what it's about....

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daviesee
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby daviesee » Sat Oct 06, 2012 06:50 am

Rick Chasey wrote:
daviesee wrote:Self contradictory.
For a fund manager to have loads of experience and a good track record, you have to ponder why he hasn't accumulated enough to retire himself.


Not really.

If you get into fund management, retiring because you 'have enough' isn't really what it's about....

No?
I will retire the day I have enough. Life is too short to be wasted working when unnecessary.
Anyway it was only a slightly lighthearted comment to ponder on. I know greedy bar stewards in their 70s with plenty cash that won't give up work. Each to their own.
By the way, what is it about? :wink:
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.

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team47b
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Re: Money / Mortgages / Investments / Pensions

Postby team47b » Sat Oct 06, 2012 07:32 am

Good question. How much is enough?
my isetta is a 300cc bike


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