red lights

Serious discussion of cycling issues
ashley7
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red lights

Postby ashley7 » Tue Nov 23, 2010 06:13 am

still to many cyclists going through red lights,come on guys not all of us but its giving us a bad name :(

Headhuunter
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Re: red lights

Postby Headhuunter » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:53 am

ashley7 wrote:still to many cyclists going through red lights,come on guys not all of us but its giving us a bad name :(


There are millions of threads about this on the commuting forum, have a look there...
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Berk Bonebonce
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Postby Berk Bonebonce » Wed Dec 08, 2010 02:27 am

Well, if there are poor systems of law enforcement, laws will get broken.

It is high time in the UK that we take some matters of law enforcement away from the police and give it to people who can do a more cost effective job of enforcement. I mean, why on earth do you need a Police Officer on 30 grand to give a ticket for a cyclist (or driver) for jumping a red light? Absolute waste of taxpayers money.

sirmy
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Postby sirmy » Tue Jan 11, 2011 19:33 pm

I've posed a question about red lights on CTC forum and wonder if anyone here (I can think of one who probably will) comment on this from the 1988 road traffic act - just what does the wording imply?

36 Drivers to comply with traffic signs. E+W+S

(1)Where a traffic sign, being a sign—

(a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or

(b)of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the M1Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,

has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.


(my emphasis)

Are cyclists drivers?

Edit 12/1/11 and any thoughts on what the ordinary meaning of driver would be today?
Last edited by sirmy on Wed Jan 12, 2011 19:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby spen666 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 08:06 am

Highway code is not the law!
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sirmy
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Postby sirmy » Wed Jan 12, 2011 19:44 pm

spen666 wrote:Highway code is not the law!


But the Highways Act is

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Postby spen666 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 20:50 pm

sirmy wrote:
spen666 wrote:Highway code is not the law!


But the Highways Act is


Whoops - the perils of posting when in a rush :oops:
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downfader
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Postby downfader » Thu Jan 13, 2011 19:20 pm

sirmy wrote:I've posed a question about red lights on CTC forum and wonder if anyone here (I can think of one who probably will) comment on this from the 1988 road traffic act - just what does the wording imply?

36 Drivers to comply with traffic signs. E+W+S

(1)Where a traffic sign, being a sign—

(a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or

(b)of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the M1Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,

has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.


(my emphasis)

Are cyclists drivers?

Edit 12/1/11 and any thoughts on what the ordinary meaning of driver would be today?


I think there is another section of law that covers it, in the same way cycling drunk isnt in the same bit that driving drunk is. :? Could google through OPSI, might take you a while though as I've struggled in the past to find specific info myself.

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T-Rekster
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Postby T-Rekster » Thu Apr 07, 2011 20:55 pm

has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.


simple really we have to and should stop, the key point being driving or propelling a vehicle, my cycle is a vehicle and I propel it forward therefore this section of the highway code specifically applies to me....and any others whom propel their vehicle....

Now if you were to get off and walk your cycle through the red light that could quite possibly be another matter altogether..

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Postby Mike Healey » Fri Apr 08, 2011 09:39 am

sirmy wrote:36 Drivers to comply with traffic signs. E+W+S

(1)Where a traffic sign, being a sign—

(a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or

(b)of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the M1Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,

has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.


Are cyclists drivers? quote]

Don't you propel your vehicle?
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Pross
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Postby Pross » Mon Apr 11, 2011 15:10 pm

sirmy wrote:
spen666 wrote:Highway code is not the law!


But the Highways Act is


But you won't find much about jumping red lights in the Highways Act - try the Road Traffic Act or Road Traffic Regulations Act maybe :wink:

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Pross
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Postby Pross » Mon Apr 11, 2011 15:12 pm

You could add this as well

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/40/section/7

It's a pretty good cover-all for RLJ or 'pavement' cycling.[/quote]

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Captain Tiara
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Postby Captain Tiara » Mon Apr 11, 2011 22:34 pm

Mmm, by the original poster's logic cars should stop speeding because they give other drivers a bad reputation.

There's a time for getting over the junction & getting out of everyone's way, done calmly & gracefully, upsetting no-one except those determined to be upset. Most accidents happen at junctions. And they're bottlenecks for cars, so generally they're happy if you're not in the way.

Riding to the front of a que of cars & then getting in the way is one of the things that pisses car drivers off.

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shouldbeinbed
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Postby shouldbeinbed » Thu Apr 21, 2011 13:56 pm

Captain Tiara wrote:Mmm, by the original poster's logic cars should stop speeding because they give other drivers a bad reputation.

There's a time for getting over the junction & getting out of everyone's way, done calmly & gracefully, upsetting no-one except those determined to be upset. Most accidents happen at junctions. And they're bottlenecks for cars, so generally they're happy if you're not in the way.

Riding to the front of a que of cars & then getting in the way is one of the things that pisses car drivers off.



Not seeing your point here, they do. Repmobile has a certain pejorative implication regardless of fact, there is a certain connotation to White Van Man, there must be some that don't conform to the stereotype.

you can't pretend that there isn't a generally held negative feeling that all motorists speed just to prop up your argument that RLJing can be ok, and I think by the amount of mentions RLJ gets from the driving lobby, cars are very definitely not happy to see cyclists doing it at junctions however calm and graceful it may be. They just see an ignorant two wheeled prick breaking the law.

on the road
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Postby on the road » Tue Apr 26, 2011 23:48 pm

I see just as many motorists go through red lights, I even saw a bus sail through a red light.

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Postby spen666 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 13:39 pm

on the road wrote:I see just as many motorists go through red lights, I even saw a bus sail through a red light.


The fact that others break the law does not act as a defence to us
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DF33
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Postby DF33 » Sun May 08, 2011 20:43 pm

In America if your turning right (ie following the curb) on a red light situation you can.

= in UK if you approach a red light and are turning left (following the curb) you could.

Nothing wrong with it. Probably safer because you don't go blindly through a green light but treat it as a T junction so look.

iIlegal here. Because every thing is regulated to the hilt and your not allowed to think for yourself.

On the main road into my city centre when I started driving 20 years ago there were 2 sets of traffic lights on the 4 mile route. 10 years ago there were about 6 to 8. Now there are TWENTY FIVE! You can't get out of 3rd in the car and constantly stop start. Worse when on the bike. Most are totally uneccessary and cause driver fustration.

No wonder red light running is so popular now.

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MattC59
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Postby MattC59 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 14:32 pm

Tust to add my tupenneth:

Quoting the Highways Code, specifically the section that relates to cyclists:

69
You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.
[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10(1)]

71
You MUST NOT cross the stop line when the traffic lights are red. Some junctions have an advanced stop line to enable you to wait and position yourself ahead of other traffic (see Rule 178).
[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36(1)]

Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’.
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Postby spen666 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 15:06 pm

MattC59 wrote:Tust to add my tupenneth:

Quoting the Highways Code, specifically the section that relates to cyclists:

69
You MUST obey all traffic signs and traffic light signals.
[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD reg 10(1)]

71
You MUST NOT cross the stop line when the traffic lights are red. Some junctions have an advanced stop line to enable you to wait and position yourself ahead of other traffic (see Rule 178).
[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36(1)]

Many of the rules in the Code are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. You may be fined, given penalty points on your licence or be disqualified from driving. In the most serious cases you may be sent to prison. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’.


not if you commit the offence as a cyclist you can't be given points on your licence
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Xommul
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Postby Xommul » Tue Jul 12, 2011 17:56 pm

Its not a question of law and penalising but a question of people considering others safety and not being selfish and single minded. If people gave a toss about each other then you wouldnt risk others safety by driving/riding through reds, using mobiles whilst driving, illegal u turns etc etc



There are few offences relating to cycling, you can be drunk in charge of a cycle, it only comes with a monetary fine however, and poss a night at the inn.


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