Ayup Lights

Discuss the eternal "Which fork/bike/tyres should I buy?" questions.
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Eranu
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Postby Eranu » Fri Sep 30, 2011 13:40 pm

Its just another irrational hate thing. AYUP are ace, mine haven't missed a beat in 3+ years.

Northwind
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Postby Northwind » Fri Sep 30, 2011 13:40 pm

But then again you can get lots of good reviews for Hope Vision 2s and similiar underpowered overpriced rubbish. It's a bit like knowing the difference between X5 and X9, seems like gibberish at first but the LED is so critical to the light, you want a good one, and a reasonably recent one usually.

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Eranu
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Postby Eranu » Fri Sep 30, 2011 13:46 pm

But then again you can get lots of randoms on an internet forum saying MagicShine and similar tat are excellent.


The other view for a more balanced discussion. And also it's not just the LED there are other factors.

I've not tried/or seen magicshine but the AYUPs, mine are old too, give me more than enough light to ride singletrack in the dark.

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Postby Northwind » Fri Sep 30, 2011 14:33 pm

Eranu wrote:I've not tried/or seen magicshine but the AYUPs, mine are old too, give me more than enough light to ride singletrack in the dark.


I didn't mention magicshine- If you want to spend the price of an Ayup there are better options from the higher end competitors too.

Gettign a light that's powerful enough to ride singletrack in the dark is incredibly easy these days so that's not much of a recommendation... We're long past the point where lack of power was a problem. And no offence, this gives a wee insight into why mediocre products get great reviews, people are undemanding.

Now nobody's saying you need to get into the lumen wars and throw around 10,000,000 lumens but when you've got a relatively dull light with outdated technology there should be tradeoffs elsewhere. Ayup are pretty and superbly presented, that's their tradeoff.

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diy
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Postby diy » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:07 pm

form, build quality, service etc. Nobody disputes that. But a 6 year old LED in a £200+ light

In simple terms you can buy a light that will be twice as bright, run twice as long for the same power and cost less than half as much.

I can only conclude that the AY-UP have a problem with heat which is preventing them from upgrading to XPG or XM-L. There is no logical reason to keep fitting XR/PE-R2s

To be blunt, the only conclusion I can see for people claiming they are better is either:
A - they haven't seen anything else
B - they refuse to accept they spent £200+ on a light which is nowhere near as good as one costing £30.

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ddraver
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Postby ddraver » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:14 pm

They re relatively dull compared to a 500 Squids mega light but I don't have GBP500 to spend on lights - to get two lights, head and bar for GBP250, with enough (when I bought them) would have meant getting slightly brighter commuter lights...

Even today, getting a 2 light set up, which is bright enough for fast riding and that lasts 6 hrs is not possible for GBP250/300 - other than ay-up

If you want more power for ay-ups you can choose to spec the high powered ones that have a shorter battery life - but I ve never needed brighter yet and I ve used mine from 20deg Summer laps on 24 hr races to -20deg rides through thigh deep snow last christmas. They have never missed a beat!

You re not quibbling between X7 and X9, you re quibbling about who makes the limit screws on the front derailleur
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ddraver
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Postby ddraver » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:15 pm

Here are the light specs from the site - I'm not an electronic engineer so I ve no idea what they mean:-

CREE LIGHTSETS – Light Specifications, AYUP- LCP4N

Weight - 58.0 grams
Colours - 12
Brand marking - Yes, laser marking
Type - Twin LED, Independent rotational light housings - 270 degrees
LED type - CREE XLamp High Powered LEDs in a Cool White Tint
LED life - over 50,000 hours - Manufacturers estimate
Light Unit Output - Up to 7500 - 8000 lux @ 1 metre, over 400 lumen
Optic type - Internal Refracting Solid Optical Grade Acrylic
Optics - Narrow, Intermediate & Medium
Light Colour - White, 6,500 - 8,000 K
Input Power - Min 5V - Max 8.4V DC
LED Controller - Resistor
Lens Seal Material - Molded Clear Silicone
Connector type - Sealed 2.1mm Barrel Type
Light Shell Casing Material - Aluminium 6061, anodised all over
Light Connecting bar Material - Glass Filled Nylon
Light Unit Impact test - 5 metres to concrete floor
IP Rating - IP 68, Immersion - 5 metres
Normal operating temp - Ambient to 35C Indoors - Ambient outdoors
Excessive heat – No
Design, Manufacture and Assembly Origin - Ay Up Lighting Systems, Australia
Serviceable - No, fully sealed
Approvals - Ultra Low Voltage - Regulation not required
Warranty - 5 year replacement against manufactures defect parts and / or assembly
Patent Pending
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diy
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Postby diy » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:26 pm

ddraver wrote:Even today, getting a 2 light set up, which is bright enough for fast riding and that lasts 6 hrs is not possible for GBP250/300 - other than ay-up


I could do that for £60 quid. and if you didn't mind one extra light, I could do it for £45

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ddraver
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Postby ddraver » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:28 pm

diy wrote:
ddraver wrote:Even today, getting a 2 light set up, which is bright enough for fast riding and that lasts 6 hrs is not possible for GBP250/300 - other than ay-up


I could do that for £60 quid. and if you didn't mind one extra light, I could do it for £45


that works :wink:
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supersonic
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Postby supersonic » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:28 pm

Still seems expensive for the output. Mbuk measured runtime of the v4 at 148 mins at full tilt. This is 20 mins more than the ms mj872, but the v4 has half the output for twice the price.

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diy
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Postby diy » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:32 pm

ddraver wrote:Here are the light specs from the site - I'm not an electronic engineer so I ve no idea what they mean:-

CREE LIGHTSETS – Light Specifications, AYUP- LCP4N

Weight - 58.0 grams
Colours - 12
Brand marking - Yes, laser marking
Type - Twin LED, Independent rotational light housings - 270 degrees
LED type - CREE XLamp High Powered LEDs in a Cool White Tint
Light Unit Output - Up to 7500 - 8000 lux @ 1 metre, over 400 lumen


there are 7 types of XLamp (MC-E, XM-L, XP-C, XP-E, XP-G,XR-C, XR-E
each type has up to 5 or so Bins.

The only XLamps that perform as badly as the above spec with R2 bins are the XR-E XP-E and XP-C which are all basically the same LED.

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ddraver
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Postby ddraver » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:38 pm

and in layman speak that means...?
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supersonic
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Postby supersonic » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:42 pm

It means they are hiding what the LED they are using is ;-) Kinda like saying a bike has a Shimano rear mech.. but which one?

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diy
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Postby diy » Fri Sep 30, 2011 15:44 pm

it means you paid 33p per Lumen when you could have paid 3p :D

Corrected...
LED type - 6 year old CREE XLamp LED, which we bought bulk and haven't used up yet.

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Postby mac man » Fri Sep 30, 2011 16:20 pm

diy wrote:it means you paid 33p per Lumen when you could have paid 3p :D

Corrected...
LED type - 6 year old CREE XLamp LED, which we bought bulk and haven't used up yet.


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ddraver
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Postby ddraver » Fri Sep 30, 2011 16:35 pm

You ve not answered the question, you ve just made oh so hilarious geek jokes - in terms of the lights on my bars - what does that mean?
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supersonic
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Postby supersonic » Fri Sep 30, 2011 16:46 pm

It means they are using old tech - if they updated to the latest LEDs, like many are doing, you could expect a third more output for the same runtime. Of course if you already have the lamp, and it works for you, why change it. But if buying new I expect more for the money, regardless of build quality. Simply put you can get an xml t6 equipped lamp for 28 quid with battery pack. A tenth the cost, yet this single LED will output as much as both the double Ayup units. This is why people are moving away from the bigger brands, just cost too much nowadays.

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Eranu
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Postby Eranu » Fri Sep 30, 2011 16:51 pm

And no offence, this gives a wee insight into why mediocre products get great reviews, people are undemanding.


None taken. I wouldn't say I'm undemanding though, mine are 3+ years old and I know there are better lights out there. However if I was in the market now AYUP would still be on my list, as they offer good support, long runtimes and a solid reliable product and as you say lumens aren't everything.

If you look at bikes people still buy spesh/orange when there are clearly better options out there like Canyon or whatever, its all down to personal choice where you want to spend your £'s, rightly or wrongly.

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diy
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Postby diy » Sat Oct 01, 2011 06:00 am

ddraver wrote:You ve not answered the question, you ve just made oh so hilarious geek jokes - in terms of the lights on my bars - what does that mean?


There is an argument that the design of the AYUP makes its poor performance an acceptable trade of as a lid mounted light, when weight is important. Not so on the bars where having the cells in the unit or on the frame makes little difference.

The two lights in my avatar produce 500 Lumen each - running XM-L LEDs at 1.7A. They cost 11 quid each, each light is producing more than twice the output of the AYUP head unit. Importantly it does it at only slightly more current.

I can switch them down quite happily to 150 Lumen or 300 Lumen and will get increased run time as a result.

With lights costing 11 quid, producing twice the output for the same power its hard to justify the 250 price tag. Yes I need a mount cells and charger, but all that can be bought for 15 quid.

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Postby Northwind » Sat Oct 01, 2011 19:56 pm

supersonic wrote:A tenth the cost, yet this single LED will output as much as both the double Ayup units


Or, just as importantly, can be run lower and produce the same amount of light, but last longer.

(well OK, in theory anyway, in practice lots of lights have really badly thought out alt modes that give you a range of options like "mentally bright- not bright enough- epileptic fit- SOS message after you recover from your epileptic fit")


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