The official TrainerRoad thread

When drugs don't work: training and health tips!
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dw300
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The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby dw300 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 21:37 pm

Ok, so I was going to get the Garmin GSC10 and Garmin ANT+ USB stick and sign up to TrainerRoad, but since I'd planned on upgrading to a Garmin 500 at some point I just went ahead and bought the HR/Cad bundle (£203 on Wiggle with 10% voucher code) since it works out cheaper than getting the GSC10 and buying the 500 and HR monitor separately later on. Stuff gets delivered tomorrow!

So, perhaps anyone that uses TR could post their setup and talk about how they use it, what programs they like and what results they're getting? I know JGSI and T.M.H.N.E.T. are users from another thread. I determined to get a proper winter's training this year.

For anyone who doesn't know here's a brief video of what it does (90 secs), and here's a longer one (17 mins).

I'll start .. with my set up ..

Trainer : Elite Crono Fluid Elastogel (#95 on their supported trainer list .. Elite Fluid Alu AKA Chrono Fluid ElastoGel)
Receiver : Garmin ANT+ USB
Laptop : Old Macbook (requires OSX 10.6 minimum for TR)
ANT+ Speed Cadence Sensor : Garmin GSC10
ANT+ HR Monitor : Garmin (not sure of the model yet)

Will try to do the 20 minute test tomorrow ..
Last edited by dw300 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 14:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Wed Aug 01, 2012 09:36 am

More than happy to assist... :D
Using a Tacx sartori with a Trainerroad setting of it on resistance level 4 for 'proxy' power readout.
Windows 7 with the Garmin USB stick / GSC10 for speed and cadence and from today a Garmin HRM.

So at the moment following a TR plan based on 'novice' competitor with a TSS average of 331 weekly and just over 5 hours volume weekly.
I have only a few more races left on the calendar so this helps with keeping things ticking over nicely.
To get a base of FTP, I did the tR '20 minute' test although it takes an hour to complete and wasnt exactly pleasant.

Pro - gives much much more focus in your Turbo workouts with the information feedback.
Con - well the power readout is not going to be SRM standard!

mzm70
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby mzm70 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:06 am

Just signed up for the 1 month trial, my setup:
KK R&R
Macbook Air + ANT+ USB stick + GSC10 + Powertap

First tryout this morning, actually very impressed. What's also nice is they have integrated Sufferfest videos (you need to own the video first). On the surface there's a large portfolio of sessions, there are also training programs utilizing these sessions.

The session is also uploaded to their web site and all the detailed training information is available online.
Last edited by mzm70 on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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amaferanga
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby amaferanga » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:06 am

Using that turbo trainer to estimate power is a bit of a joke. I know that since I have one and a proper power meter. I assume that all that TrainerRoad do is get hold of the manufacturers power profile and use that to estimate power?

FWIW here's speed (top graph) with constant power (apart from the last minute or so of each interval where power goes up a bit) with my Elite Supercrono turbo:

Image

And the same with a Cycleops Fluid 2:

Image


So while some turbos can give a meaningful power figure using speed, the Elite fluid trainer is IME not one of those. You'd probably be better to use RPE than the highly temperature dependent power figure you'll get from TrainerRoad for that turbo.
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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:28 am

Trainer Road do say:
"We give three ways to train at TrainerRoad. Power, VirtualPower and heart rate.

Power
Hands down, training with a power meter is the best way to push yourself to the next level. It's accuracy is second to none. If you're training with power, 200 watts is 200 watts. It doesn't matter if your tired, at a different altitude or at the end of a race. The laws of physics don't change.

The downside is that power meters start at about $700 and go up to $3000+. It's a large investment.

VirtualPower
If you don't have a power meter, we think VirtualPower is the next best thing. If you keep your setup consistent, you can get consistent power numbers. You still get the advantages of workout numbers that aren't affected by how tired you are.

Heart Rate
Heart rate is still good. Some people swear by it. We don't like that it takes a while for your heart to respond to intervals. If you're doing short intervals, it's very hard to gauge the correct output.

Another thing that's tough is heart rate drift. As you do more intervals, your avg hr for each interval goes up. To see an example, just check out our ride feed. You'll notice that someone's power output stays consistent for 4 intervals, but each interval has a high average heart rate.

If you workout with heart rate now, I suggest you give VirtualPower a test. I think you'll like it."

I have seen comment about the Elite and the way it responds as not being , let's say, the best to put it politely.
I don't have an issue with my simple as mag sartori.. easy to keep things constant.

whojanicanackerov
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby whojanicanackerov » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:36 am

I`ve just signed up for the trainer road.
Using windows 7
Garmin ant+ stick
Powertap pro+

I thought I would give it go to make things more interesting on the turbo.So far so good it`s a nice system It still needs a little fine tuning but If I have come across a bug and mailed them they have got straight back to me.to help with the problem.
If trainer roads "virtual trainer power" is on the high side compared to real powertap,SRM figures this wouldn`t matter as you have something to work with consistently week on week to monitor your progression.
All in all I`m finding it as great tool to help with my training.
I`ve only been riding since the 1st of Jan so I need all the help I can get, to help take my mind of the pain that riding bikes gives us!!
I hope all that makes sense as writing isn`t my strong point

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dw300
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby dw300 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:10 am

Don't get me wrong .. I don't expect that a £130 turbo will help give accurate power readings compared to a Powertap or SRM. I'm really just looking for something to give structured workouts. I'm considering getting my hands on a Powertap sometime in the distant future if I can afford it and if I think it will give a further edge.

How much do you think the error involved will affect results between the same workout on the same set up? I assume that the harder you work and the more heat, the less resistance you'll have?
All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:41 am

The more workouts you do, the more you get to 'recognise' the effort levels involved.
The numbers are there to keep your training on track rather than 'bragging' rights.

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T.M.H.N.E.T
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Wed Aug 01, 2012 14:16 pm

Neither of your links work!

Not a TR user yet! Been waiting for some OT to go into my wages then I'm off to a well known auction site. TBH I don't think my turbo is even listed but what matters is things stay constant. Makes little difference to me if the readings are out,as long as they go up.

I was actually considering a total upgrade to Garmin 500 or Bryton Rider50T, until I chanced upon a YT vid that shows how to swap the Bryton sensor between speed or cadence. I think I'd much rather have them both!

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dw300
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby dw300 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 14:33 pm

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:Neither of your links work!

Not a TR user yet! Been waiting for some OT to go into my wages then I'm off to a well known auction site. TBH I don't think my turbo is even listed but what matters is things stay constant. Makes little difference to me if the readings are out,as long as they go up.

I was actually considering a total upgrade to Garmin 500 or Bryton Rider50T, until I chanced upon a YT vid that shows how to swap the Bryton sensor between speed or cadence. I think I'd much rather have them both!


Links fixed. One's the video you previously linked me to.

Apparently my package checked into Citylink at 1506 .. hopefully it'll be delivered today since I've stayed in all day based on their predicted delivery date.
All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
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deanflyer
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby deanflyer » Wed Aug 01, 2012 19:12 pm

Using trainerroad with Lemond Revolution, Garmin GSC10, Bontrager ANT+ speed sensor and Garmin ANT+ USB stick.

Using it to recover from a shoulder injury and keep fit until I can get back out on the road.

Seems good so far, have also bought some of the sufferfest videos.

Garryboy
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby Garryboy » Wed Aug 01, 2012 19:34 pm

Been using trainer road for about a month and really like it.

Im using it with

Cyclops jetfluid pro
Garmin 500
Garmin gsc10
Garmin hrm
Dell mini netbook
Garmin usb stick
Sufferfest vids

I find I push myself more and stick to the structure of the workout. Previously I would get hung up on my overall average mph, rather than ensuring the intervals were intense enough.

Will be using it more than I'd prefer in next couple of weeks as my only road worthy bike is knack'd (sram rival rear shifter failed).

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GiantMike
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby GiantMike » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:33 am

Is TR a download or do you have to be online to use it?
my power improvement experiment blog

Rule number 100: It's your bike and your money and your time; do what you like with it and ignore other peoples' rules. Except this one.

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T.M.H.N.E.T
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby T.M.H.N.E.T » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:40 am

GiantMike wrote:Is TR a download or do you have to be online to use it?

Download + 10$ a month subscription

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JGSI
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby JGSI » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:56 am

And when you install the application on pc/mac, it can be used off-line as it stores a local database with the various workouts and synch up later.

poynedexter
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby poynedexter » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:17 pm

at this point i have to declare my hand.

at no stage do i understand this thread. i'm a ludite and ride a bicycle.

and for that reason...... i'm out..... :oops:

whojanicanackerov
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby whojanicanackerov » Thu Aug 02, 2012 18:22 pm

So DW300 have you had a ride on TR yet?

Whats all your names ON TR so I can check your rides out?

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dw300
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby dw300 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 01:16 am

Ha, yeh, I just did my first TR ride ..

I went out about 1930 for a ride, and punctured after 16 miles, less than 5 mins walk from home, so I just walked it in. Then I watched a bit of the Olympics and jumped on the trainer after I'd changed my tube.

I did the '20 Minute Test' at about midnight. I guessed my FTP to be about 170 (lol, yes I'm a lightweight) based on Strava's estimation for on the road TT efforts, but put in 160 as I was feeling lazy and didn't want to hurt too much. I also figured it didn't really matter at this point since the test is for calculation FTP anyway.

Jumped on, did the first half hour and thought it felt about right, maybe a little easy. It was looking for me to sustain 170W for the 20 mins, but I tried to hold it around 190 to start with and gradually let it slide. Averaged 182W for the 20 mins.

A few thoughts went through my head during the test ..

1. Half way through the 20 minute part i had a pain right in my left knee cap. I've had it before once or twice, but as long as it doesn't get too sore I just work through it, which I did.

2. I had another pain in a tendon behind my right knee. I've had that a lot too, usually when I don't get a break from pedalling for a long time. Probably just a bit of tendinitis.

2b. My HR didn't go above 170. My max is about 185-188, and I can sustain 180+ on the road for a number of minutes. But on the trainer I just couldn't push it harder, not because of heart or lung limitations, but because my legs hurt.

3. I'm going to turn the 'pedal to start' function off so that I can take breaks from pedalling during the rest periods, if I start to hurt.

4. My ar$e really hurt!

Soooo .. even though I do about 90 miles a week, plus a couple of light trainer sessions, I was completely unprepared for a tough trainer session. But being able to stand up or stop pedalling should see those ache's and pains right.

But I think this has highlighted a weakness. I get by by spinning everywhere. When I'm out and there's a headwind I simply slow down if I'm solo. I wheelsuck if I'm in a group! I like putting my effort in on climbs instead. Riding the trainer in that big a gear feels like riding into a stiff headwind .. feels more a strain on my legs than my fitness.

Has avoiding pushing the big gears been to my detriment? I am getting faster, but am I limiting my progress? I usually avoid it to reduce recovery times so I can get out more.

Is there a difference between generating x amount of power spinning up a steep climb, compared to churning along on the flat? I know that some people say that that big gear training is useless, and you'll go further by spinning. But I'm having second thoughts.

Any advice?

PS. I'm dw300 on TR.
All the above is just advice .. you can do whatever the f*ck you wana do!
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Eyorerox
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Re: The official TrainerRoad thread

Postby Eyorerox » Fri Aug 03, 2012 04:16 am

Some more discussion
I could not find the Tacx satoris on Trainer Road
http://forums.roadbikereview.com/genera ... 70667.html


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