Chain jamming into chainstay

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robst3
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Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby robst3 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 18:46 pm

Hey all,

I've got a carbon 456 with SLX 10 speed drivetrain. Experiencing what I thought was chain suck but not so sure now:

When changing down from the large to the small chain ring the chain isn't disengaging from the large ring and gets dragged up past the chainstay and jams there.

I've replaced the chain and both chain rings but it still happens. Photo below shows what is happening - if I pedal any further the chain goes up past the chainstay:

Image

crimsondynamo
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby crimsondynamo » Sat Sep 22, 2012 19:02 pm

My mate has a 456 with a triple set up and he's plagued by chainsuck, despite new chain and rings as you've done.

My own personal theory is that chainsuck occurs on lots of bikes, but most of them have sufficient clearance between the rings and the frame so that the chain never gets wedged up there and the rider doesn't notice.

I'd be interested to see the responses.

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The Rookie
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby The Rookie » Sat Sep 22, 2012 20:32 pm

You can't do cranks and pedals up with an allen key, you won't create enough torque.

Chunkers1980
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby Chunkers1980 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 20:49 pm

Yes you can. My pedals are only Allen key and have never come undone.

Looks like chain suck to me. Fair few articles around with theories as to why it happens/is more prone to happen.

robst3
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby robst3 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 20:55 pm

crimsondynamo wrote:My mate has a 456 with a triple set up and he's plagued by chainsuck, despite new chain and rings as you've done.

My own personal theory is that chainsuck occurs on lots of bikes, but most of them have sufficient clearance between the rings and the frame so that the chain never gets wedged up there and the rider doesn't notice.

I'd be interested to see the responses.


I fear you may be right... I've read all the chain stuck articles and have done as they recommend and fitted new chain rings/chain at a decent expense but no fix...

Time for a new frame or single chain ring I guess.

robst3
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby robst3 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 20:59 pm

The Beginner wrote:You can't do cranks and pedals up with an allen key, you won't create enough torque.


Eh? What's that got to do with it??

Chunkers1980
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby Chunkers1980 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 21:03 pm

He talks rubbish a lot, but must have mis-read something as I can't work out where he'd get that from. Delhi belly has gone to his head more than normal.

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cooldad
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby cooldad » Sat Sep 22, 2012 21:15 pm

robst3 wrote:
crimsondynamo wrote:My mate has a 456 with a triple set up and he's plagued by chainsuck, despite new chain and rings as you've done.

My own personal theory is that chainsuck occurs on lots of bikes, but most of them have sufficient clearance between the rings and the frame so that the chain never gets wedged up there and the rider doesn't notice.

I'd be interested to see the responses.


I fear you may be right... I've read all the chain stuck articles and have done as they recommend and fitted new chain rings/chain at a decent expense but no fix...

Time for a new frame or single chain ring I guess.

Plenty of people with 456 frames without your problem. I'd say setup.
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robst3
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby robst3 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 21:54 pm

Setup as in choice of components or the way they are installed?

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bails87
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby bails87 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 22:41 pm

I had this quite a few times on my C456.I changed the rings and chain, and take more care when shifting, and it doesn't seem to be a problem anymore. I don't know if it's the rings or the caution that's made the difference.
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The Rookie
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby The Rookie » Sun Sep 23, 2012 06:07 am

robst3 wrote:
The Beginner wrote:You can't do cranks and pedals up with an allen key, you won't create enough torque.


Eh? What's that got to do with it??

was answering a different thread on my phone, not the first time the reply has been put in wrong thread, first time I haven't spotted an deleted it!

robst3
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby robst3 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 07:16 am

The Beginner wrote:
robst3 wrote:
The Beginner wrote:You can't do cranks and pedals up with an allen key, you won't create enough torque.


Eh? What's that got to do with it??

was answering a different thread on my phone, not the first time the reply has been put in wrong thread, first time I haven't spotted an deleted it!


Ah... thought that might be the case.

robst3
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby robst3 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 07:23 am

bails87 wrote:I had this quite a few times on my C456.I changed the rings and chain, and take more care when shifting, and it doesn't seem to be a problem anymore. I don't know if it's the rings or the caution that's made the difference.


Hmm, I was testing it yesterday afternoon after swapping the rings/chain by pedaling very gently round the garden and it still happened about one every three times I changed down from the middle to small ring, so don't think it's a lack of caution here.

I'm running a 10 speed slx drive train, now with a kmc x10 93 chain, deore small and middle chain rings and a bash instead of a large chain ring. Have swapped out the original triple front derailleur for the slx double specific version. All components installed and set up according to the Shimano tech docs.

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The Rookie
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby The Rookie » Sun Sep 23, 2012 07:44 am

My seem a silly question, but what chain lube? As the chain appears to be hanging up on the middle ring when changing down, a well (wet) lubed chain may slip of more easily until it's 'bedded in' (sharp edges taken off).

Have a look at rear mech setup, the more tension that creates, the more likely it is to pull the chain off the middle ring perhaps? Other than Gravity it's only the rear mech force acting to pull the chain off that ring, If you have a clutched mech that would make it worse.....

bazza333
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby bazza333 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 16:11 pm

I have exactly the same issue on a Giant - always have right from new. It's had different cranks/chainrings/chains/lubes and it still does it. Recently a technician from SRAM (not an LBS) looked at it and moved the front derailleur across so it gives it more of a "push" - it's helped but not stopped it. In my case the chain gets hooked up and carried round on the shifting pins.

crimsondynamo
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby crimsondynamo » Sun Sep 23, 2012 17:06 pm

To add tension, what about only changing rings with the chain in the middle of the cassette (i.e never in the smaller sprockets), also remove a couple of chainlinks? Just a thought.

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Danny-T
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby Danny-T » Sun Sep 23, 2012 18:36 pm

I had this on my Trek Remedy, lots of lube fixed it as the chain leaves the chainring smoother without carrying around but after a muddy ride it still sometimes misbehaves. I also found wedging a chainstay protector to the front of the chainstay helped by making the space between chainset and chainstay too small for the chain to fit.

crimsondynamo
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby crimsondynamo » Mon Sep 24, 2012 18:23 pm

Plenty of people with 456 frames without your problem. I'd say setup.


To be fair, there are plenty of people with 456 frames WITH this problem. The OP is by no means alone. The numerous threads searching for a solution attest to this. There does seem to be a trick involving zip-ties which seems to be pretty reliable.

Out of interest, note the massive chainring clearances on Brant Richards Ragley bikes.

Chunkers1980
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby Chunkers1980 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 18:26 pm

There are also plenty of people with chain suck problems. The frame is only chain line related.

crimsondynamo
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Re: Chain jamming into chainstay

Postby crimsondynamo » Mon Sep 24, 2012 19:05 pm

Yes but a bit of chainsuck for whatever reason (mud, grit, ring/chain manufacturer, frame alignment tolerances etc) is not an issue on frames with more clearance.

For example on my HT I've never knowingly experienced chainsuck, but the inner drive side chainstay has layers of paint scuffed off it. I guess the chain must have been up there a few times but sprung loose without me noticing. With my mate's 456 it gets wedged up good and proper.


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