FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

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ave_it
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Re:

Postby ave_it » Thu Jan 19, 2012 16:41 pm

twotyred wrote:
Common advice in the 60s was not to drink much fluid at all during the ride and after. Very dangerous indeed!


As Tommy Simpson found out (the amphetamines might have had something to do with it as well)


Think a lot has been learnt since the 60s on how to fuel up correctly for training

mog812
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby mog812 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 18:03 pm

I read a lot about Cadence, and about how it helps...
Though without having a cycle computer to monitor my Cadence, I was wondering if, perhaps a... Metronome beat of 90bpm played through an MP3 player might be of help ? (naturally, it wouldn't be too loud, so I can still hear whats about me)
And then maybe different tracks of different speeds... only for a short while till I get used to the pace, as I'm sure too much of listening to that, will end up sounding like I have a somewhat ruinessly slow woodpecker in my head :shock: lol

whyamihere
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby whyamihere » Sun May 20, 2012 22:38 pm

Not everyone's ideal cadence is 90 rpm, that's just a ballpark figure (mine tends to be over 100rpm on the flat). Just ride how you feel comfortable if it's causing no issues.

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sampras38
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Re:

Postby sampras38 » Mon May 21, 2012 08:40 am

Pross wrote:Why would anyone not drink from choice? There are some odd people out there who think they'll look soft if they carry food and drink or if they aren't grinding a massive gear at 50rpm. Personally I'd rather be riding as hard as I can in the most comfort I can.


When I first got into cycling seriously I remember being told by some riders that the sport does tend to attract eccentrics, or those old schoolers wo just don't want to move with the times. I'm still amazed at some of the rubbish I hear and read. Pretty much every single sport has evolved over the years and with it vastly improved nutritional advice.

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daveyroids
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Re:

Postby daveyroids » Sat Jun 23, 2012 19:51 pm

sampras38 wrote:
jaijaicp wrote:I have noticed almost 100% of the guys on my club rides drink very very little, some dont even have a bottle on the bike!I try and drink at least 400ml per hour.Some fella even told me not to bother AT ALL with carb based drinks through the winter.There are some seasoned cyclists out there who do know what they are on about, just take all advice with a pinch of salt!

"A legend in his own mind..."


You often get people like this, not just in sport but all walks of life. Just because someone's been doing something a long time does not always mean they're doing it right. It's like they feel like a hard man for riding without eating or drinking. Some people just won't be told and I'm happy not to tell em..;-)


Yeah, think we have all come across people like this. On club runs I have noticed that some people drink quite a bit now especially younger riders and newer riders to the sport. I have noticed that others have tool canisters in one bottle cage and a 500ml bottle in the other with only about half drank by the end of the ride. I always worry, especially on a hot day, that they will become ill during the ride but so far everyone appears to handle their lack of fluid intake fine. I take 2x 750ml bottles which usually need filling half way round. If I'm on a long non stop ride I fix a cage on the seatpost and take a further 500ml bottle in my back pocket. Fluids are the most important thing for me to take out on a ride.

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daveyroids
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby daveyroids » Sat Jun 23, 2012 20:04 pm

whyamihere wrote:Not everyone's ideal cadence is 90 rpm, that's just a ballpark figure (mine tends to be over 100rpm on the flat). Just ride how you feel comfortable if it's causing no issues.


Tend to agree. I have advised people over the years to drop a gear and raise cadence as they have been grinding in a high gear. Apart from that each to their own. With riding a variety of bikes I find on my mountain bike / hybrid I have a higher cadence than my road bike. On my fixed gear, 'well' that depends on a lot of factors.

jamienorton
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby jamienorton » Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:30 am

I tend to find that if i dont have a drink before a ride it has a real effect on performance, fluid intake on a ride seems to vary greatly.

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sampras38
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby sampras38 » Fri Sep 21, 2012 14:20 pm

jamienorton wrote:I tend to find that if i dont have a drink before a ride it has a real effect on performance, fluid intake on a ride seems to vary greatly.


Well you do need to be hydrated before you ride, not just on the ride itself.

Trev The Rev
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Re: Re:

Postby Trev The Rev » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:56 am

daveyroids wrote:
sampras38 wrote:
jaijaicp wrote:I have noticed almost 100% of the guys on my club rides drink very very little, some dont even have a bottle on the bike!I try and drink at least 400ml per hour.Some fella even told me not to bother AT ALL with carb based drinks through the winter.There are some seasoned cyclists out there who do know what they are on about, just take all advice with a pinch of salt!

"A legend in his own mind..."


You often get people like this, not just in sport but all walks of life. Just because someone's been doing something a long time does not always mean they're doing it right. It's like they feel like a hard man for riding without eating or drinking. Some people just won't be told and I'm happy not to tell em..;-)


Yeah, think we have all come across people like this. On club runs I have noticed that some people drink quite a bit now especially younger riders and newer riders to the sport. I have noticed that others have tool canisters in one bottle cage and a 500ml bottle in the other with only about half drank by the end of the ride. I always worry, especially on a hot day, that they will become ill during the ride but so far everyone appears to handle their lack of fluid intake fine. I take 2x 750ml bottles which usually need filling half way round. If I'm on a long non stop ride I fix a cage on the seatpost and take a further 500ml bottle in my back pocket. Fluids are the most important thing for me to take out on a ride.


Perhaps they only drink when thirsty.

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springtide9
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby springtide9 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 15:34 pm

I completely agree with all of the above information regards to taking on fluids, but fluid quantity does hugely depend on 'relative effort' ( as well as duration & temperature )

i.e. You'd probably get away with no fluids if you rode for 4 hr ride in Zone 1, but it would be a different story if you rode the same amount of time in Zone 3 with regards to a proper amount of fluid intake.

So if am old club member drinks nothing on an 80 mile ride, it might just be that his relative effort was pretty low so didn't need much fluid, even if younger legs were riding hard to keep up with him :D
Simon

cyclingDoc
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby cyclingDoc » Sat Dec 08, 2012 14:14 pm

There is a common misunderstanding, more widespread the older people are (my grandfather swore by this), that sweating equals getting tired. Because of this they belive that if you sweat more, you will be more tired, therefore getting dehydrated and sweating less, makes you get less tired.
It is very possible to ride long distances without drinking, but you will without a shadow of a doubt ride it faster if you stay hydrated.

If not drinking made you ride faster, don't you think every pro rider would use this strategy?

ruarigrant
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby ruarigrant » Thu Jan 17, 2013 17:47 pm

I've found that base mile-wise, riding fixed is quite a handy training tool..especially if you're pushed for time. for one, you're constantly pedalling, which makes a massive difference to the efficiency of the workout. a few other pointers are here..
http://andbethere.blogspot.it/2013/01/r ... inter.html

hope it's useful :)

Cumulonimbus
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby Cumulonimbus » Tue Feb 19, 2013 01:10 am

I used to ride with someone who claimed they didnt need to drink when riding because they had adapted to exercise so well. Surprising how they only really seemed to struggle on say, a 2 hour ride in 25C rather than a 1.5 hour in 18C. Cant quite work it out myself....

trickydisco
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby trickydisco » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:27 pm

This book is worth a read on the subject of hydration

http://www.humankinetics.com/products/a ... aterlogged

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/e ... -hydration

Marathon runners were not alone in this belief. Cyclists in the race that was considered the ultimate physical challenge—the Tour de France—were advised similarly: “Avoid drinking when racing, especially in hot weather. Drink as little as possible, and with the liquid not too cold. It is only a question of will power. When you drink too much you will perspire, and you will lose your strength.” As a result only “four small bottles for a long stage (of the Tour), it was frowned upon to drink more” (Fotheringham, 2002, p. 180).

There is no evidence that this advice was especially dangerous, produced ill health or death, or seriously impaired athletic performance. Indeed, the most rapid improvements in marathon running performances occurred from 1920 to 1970 (figure 1, page xiv) in the period when athletes were not drinking much during races and were generally ignorant of the science of distance running, including the value of specific diets (Noakes, 2003).

A plateau in running times occurred after 1970. This effect is most apparent in the 42 km marathon, suggesting that all human runners, marathoners especially, are rapidly approaching the physical limits of human running ability. Note that in the period of 1900 to 1970, marathon runners were actively discouraged from drinking during exercise. The introduction and encouragement of frequent drinking after 1976 were not associated with any sudden increase in world-record performances in the marathon. Rather, an opposite trend is apparent (figure 1). The same trend exists also at the shorter–distance races, during which athletes do not usually drink.

K0Power
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby K0Power » Tue Aug 20, 2013 09:39 am

I was always under the impression if you wait until your thirsty to take a drink of water you have left it too late...

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BenderRodriguez
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby BenderRodriguez » Sun Sep 08, 2013 08:29 am

K0Power wrote:I was always under the impression if you wait until your thirsty to take a drink of water you have left it too late...


I think a few relevant points are that:

Firstly, the 'hydrate or die' message has been most strongly pushed by the sports drink industry.

Secondly, much of the research showing a decline in performance with 'dehydration' does not adequately account for confounding factors, especially heat stress. Put someone on an ego and work them till they are sweating buckets and seriously overheated and, no surprise, they fatigue. Work them just as hard but put the in front of a huge fan that will evaporate the sweat and cool them - as would happen when cycling along a real road at speed - and the fatigue level is likely to be much less, even though they have lost just as much fluid.

Thirdly, if there is one thing that our evolutionary history is likely to have gifted us, as hunters who might take days to track prey, is the ability to tolerate significant levels of dehydration.

Of course really severe hydration is a serious thing, but I would bet that for most sports performances, over-hydration is a more serious problem than dehydration, unless the weather is particularly hot. In fact, I have read a number of articles detailing deaths during sports event due to over-hydration. For example, the following, discussing the ides of the author of the book cited above.

http://www.outsideonline.com/blog/outdo ... ports.html

Thirst is very probably the most accurate guide to when and how much you need to drink.
"an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.

BigFatBloke
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby BigFatBloke » Wed Sep 11, 2013 15:10 pm

I read the Noakes book, Waterlogged, some time ago. When I posted about it on some cycling forums I got called a troll.


Remember the sports drink industry funds most research into hydration. I doubt we see all the research, only what they want us to see, and much research is designed to prove we need to consume their products.

cougie
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby cougie » Mon Dec 09, 2013 15:29 pm

Having been in a lab and used for a sports drink experiment - I'd not put much faith in their findings.

The human body is pretty sophisticated so drinking to thirst will be a very good guide.

insella
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby insella » Sun Feb 16, 2014 07:47 am

in the summer here in northern italy it is hot and humid, and exerting. I have struggled terribly, as an experiment counter to dear ole Ray Mears' advice. He said to thoroughly hydrate in the morning, 1,5l before breakfast and there is little chance of stress during the day from dehydration. Thirst, yes, and one must make efforts to hydrate as the body needs it, but this is sage advice. I can manage 6 hour stints with thirst but not stress in 35deg and stifling humidity.

I don't know what more learned nutritionists make of this advice, but practically it works for me, though it is not always so easy to thoroughly hydrate with 1,5l in the morning but afterwards it feels very good, also for the mind because of no buzzing desire to satiate.

rayjay
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Re: FAQ: increasing your base endurance/etc

Postby rayjay » Mon Mar 10, 2014 18:22 pm

I ride a lot in just my spiderman underpants.

On longer journeys I prefer to stay in a Premier inn.

hope that helps


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