First Wheel Build

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lochindaal
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First Wheel Build

Postby lochindaal » Tue Oct 02, 2012 14:32 pm

I have been given a present of a wheel boarding course and so want some help on what to build.

My thought is to make as cheap a wheel as possible as being the first it may take some practice to get any good (I will also have to make the one to go with it on my own)

If I set a level of (say) Shimano RS500 as cheap training wheels at £80/set as a budget what parts would you advise to buy for making the wheels?

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smidsy
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby smidsy » Tue Oct 02, 2012 15:26 pm

pm Ugo.Santalucia - he's the wheel build guru :-)
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thecycleclinic
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby thecycleclinic » Tue Oct 02, 2012 17:12 pm

You could by a Rigida chrina rim, cheap 8/9 speed sora hubs and 64 Sapim race spokes. That would come under budget and be a decent wheel for the money. This is for a 3x 32H build.

All of those in my shop come in at £94. If you can by RS500 wheels at £80 per set don't bother building any as that is pratially trade price. You can save a few pounds by buying plain guage spokes but not alot (£8).
http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue Oct 02, 2012 17:17 pm

Why do you want to build a set of cheap wheels? If you were given the opportunity to do a frame building course, would you go for the cheapest steel?

The same apply... your first build will be perfectly rideable, maybe not the best set in the world, but they will be just fine... make a nice set of wheels, one you want to ride... decent hubs, CRC has ultegra hubs on sale... Planet X has ambrosio excellight rims on offer, they are amazing rims, which build well... treat yourself... no point in scrimping, saving 50 quid and ending up with something you don't want to ride

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2Phat4Rapha
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby 2Phat4Rapha » Tue Oct 02, 2012 17:44 pm

Get yourself and old 32/36 spoke 3 cross rear wheel from wherever you can. Disassemble it taking care to first ease each nipple by small amounts - say half a turn, until they are all loose. Throw away the nipples, buy new ones in brass and give everything a good clean. You can pull the hub apart and service it too if you’re interested.

Lightly oil the spoke threads and nipples and learn how to lace it back up again. There’s plenty of on-line help and opinion about how to do that. eg. http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/wheelbuilding/book.php, Once you’ve got it laced and a little tension in the spokes, dismantle it again and start over. Then do it again and again and again until you stop thinking about how the lacing goes. If you break off for a week or so, relace it again.

Once you have the lacing of a standard 32/36 3 cross nailed, start to learn the truing process. Once again there’s plenty of on-line help and opinion about how to do it.

You don’t absolutely need the most expensive tools, although a truing stand is extremely helpful, but a good quality spoke key is a must.

Once you are comfortable with the “standard” wheel, you can start varying the components - rim, hub, spokes and nipples as that is really what the “art” of wheel building is all about.

Or, if building for your own use is your purpose, buy yourself the best you can afford and take pride in riding your own wheels.
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thecycleclinic
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby thecycleclinic » Tue Oct 02, 2012 18:12 pm

ug.o santiago has a point. It is actually quite difficult to destroy nice components even on the first build. So do buy the best you can afford. Plenty of good rims out there Ambrosio has been mentioned but there is the DT Swiss RR465 and velocity A23's, H plus Sons Archetype..... all good rims. For hubs you have more choice than you can shake a stick at.

With any wheel build first you start with what you want the wheels for i.e type of riding and your riding style. Then do you priorities durability over performance. Do you have a weight target. What weight you are will influance spoke count and rim choice.

A 32 spoke 3x wheel works for most people and there are plenty of nice ways to build one of those.

However the OP may want cheap parts to pratice with before he/she bys the bits wanted for the nice build. Given the ost of alot of factory wheels there is no point in building wheels at those sort of price points. There is a point in handbuilts if more money is spent as you can get something different to what the maor manufacturers offer., and the satifaction building yourself.
http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.

lochindaal
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby lochindaal » Tue Oct 02, 2012 18:47 pm

Thanks for all the advice do far. My thought had been that I wouldn't get it perfect first time hence the cheaper options.

I guess I was aiming for a build of some winter training wheels as first try. I can make a good wheel later

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue Oct 02, 2012 18:56 pm

lochindaal wrote:Thanks for all the advice do far. My thought had been that I wouldn't get it perfect first time hence the cheaper options.

I guess I was aiming for a build of some winter training wheels as first try. I can make a good wheel later


Cheap rims don't build we'll and they are frustrating... They have poor tolerances... The difference in price between a cheap rim and a good one is 20 pounds... Is it worth it?

thecycleclinic
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby thecycleclinic » Tue Oct 02, 2012 22:34 pm

However the cheap Chrina does build well. The wheels I have with them are still perfect after 4000 odd miles. I'd say they were decent ones. Not all cheap rims do build well though.

Good rims though like velocity, DT Swiss and Ambrosio just to name a few do build more easily and result in more even tensions. Worth it really.

Whatever you choose avoid the open pro as a high mileage winter wheel. The braking surface is too thin 1.35mm thick and will wear out alot sooner than a DT rim or even that cheap Chrina. Maybe Ugo you can let me know how thick the braking surface is on ambroiso rims. I don't know.

Personally if your budget is tight then the Chrina is not a bad rim at all. I would use them again, oh wait I have not worn them out yet so I am still using them. My summer/dry wheather wheels use DT rims. My rims for crappy/wet weather are alot cheaper becuase they get wrecked alot quicker.

Pick a rim/hub combo that meet your needs that is main thing. Price is not an indicator of it meeting your needs! Shimano hubs are very cost effective for they provide and have very good geometry which helps build a reliable wheel more easily. If you can afford ultegra hubs then use them they are very durable. 105 hubs will meet most peoples needs though.

After that the building part just takes patience. Who's do the wheel building course? I am sure you'll enjoy it.
http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby ugo.santalucia » Wed Oct 03, 2012 06:55 am

thecycleclinic wrote:However the cheap Chrina does build well. The wheels I have with them are still perfect after 4000 odd miles. I'd say they were decent ones. Not all cheap rims do build well though.

Good rims though like velocity, DT Swiss and Ambrosio just to name a few do build more easily and result in more even tensions. Worth it really.

Whatever you choose avoid the open pro as a high mileage winter wheel. The braking surface is too thin 1.35mm thick and will wear out alot sooner than a DT rim or even that cheap Chrina. Maybe Ugo you can let me know how thick the braking surface is on ambroiso rims. I don't know.

Personally if your budget is tight then the Chrina is not a bad rim at all. I would use them again, oh wait I have not worn them out yet so I am still using them. My summer/dry wheather wheels use DT rims. My rims for crappy/wet weather are alot cheaper becuase they get wrecked alot quicker.

Pick a rim/hub combo that meet your needs that is main thing. Price is not an indicator of it meeting your needs! Shimano hubs are very cost effective for they provide and have very good geometry which helps build a reliable wheel more easily. If you can afford ultegra hubs then use them they are very durable. 105 hubs will meet most peoples needs though.

After that the building part just takes patience. Who's do the wheel building course? I am sure you'll enjoy it.


Never measured it... I assume they're all in line weight for weight... you can't have thick walls and a light rim...
I know you don't like Open PRO, but at the end of the day they are durable, light rims which build well and they are priced very reasonably.
The Chrina are well built and there is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with them, but there is a reason why only tourers with heavy loads want to use them... that's where they belong (didn't we have the same discussion a could have months ago?)

lochindaal
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby lochindaal » Wed Oct 03, 2012 13:41 pm

just for info I'm doing the course with Edinburgh Bike Co-Op

nathancom
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby nathancom » Thu Oct 04, 2012 07:43 am

Where can you get H Plus Son Archetype rims from? I know strada make them up but not really seen where you can buy rim only.
Last edited by nathancom on Thu Oct 04, 2012 07:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby ugo.santalucia » Thu Oct 04, 2012 07:44 am

nathancom wrote:Where can you get H Plus Son Archetype rims from? I know strada make them up but not really seen where you can buy rim only.


Just riding along sell them, I think

nathancom
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby nathancom » Thu Oct 04, 2012 07:50 am

I asked Wheelsmith about them and he said they had more of a rep in track rims, but the anodised rim finish does look great. Guess not many people will know how they ride.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby ugo.santalucia » Thu Oct 04, 2012 08:01 am

nathancom wrote:I asked Wheelsmith about them and he said they had more of a rep in track rims, but the anodised rim finish does look great. Guess not many people will know how they ride.


Archetype as track rim? Had he been drinking? The anodised finish looks great, but in time the brake track will wear out revealing the bare alloy... if you can live with that... yes they do look and ride great

nathancom
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby nathancom » Thu Oct 04, 2012 08:03 am

ugo.santalucia wrote:
nathancom wrote:I asked Wheelsmith about them and he said they had more of a rep in track rims, but the anodised rim finish does look great. Guess not many people will know how they ride.


Archetype as track rim? Had he been drinking? The anodised finish looks great, but in time the brake track will wear out revealing the bare alloy... if you can live with that... yes they do look and ride great

No, H Plus Son as a manufacturer having more of a rep in track rims than in road rims.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby ugo.santalucia » Thu Oct 04, 2012 08:14 am

nathancom wrote:
ugo.santalucia wrote:
nathancom wrote:I asked Wheelsmith about them and he said they had more of a rep in track rims, but the anodised rim finish does look great. Guess not many people will know how they ride.


Archetype as track rim? Had he been drinking? The anodised finish looks great, but in time the brake track will wear out revealing the bare alloy... if you can live with that... yes they do look and ride great

No, H Plus Son as a manufacturer having more of a rep in track rims than in road rims.


Ahhh... they are extremely good quality. The finish is superb... you kind of get what you pay for. For the same thing but cheaper, I think JRA also has the A 23 old model on sale... worth a punt

Doss
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby Doss » Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:47 am

Never built a set of wheels but reading this is getting me tempted. Is there much difference in the Ultegra 6500 or 6700 rear hub?. The one CRC has cheap is the 6500.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby ugo.santalucia » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:21 am

Doss wrote:Never built a set of wheels but reading this is getting me tempted. Is there much difference in the Ultegra 6500 or 6700 rear hub?. The one CRC has cheap is the 6500.


No, not really... go for it...

lochindaal
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Re: First Wheel Build

Postby lochindaal » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:30 pm

after taking the advice from people here and a combination of wanting to make something that looks good I was saying towards 105 hubs (as I could get them in black), ambrosia rims (black) and some white spokes (to add a bit of bling factor). when I look at the weight it goes up to a 2kg wheel set as the spokes are 14g each. by the time there are 64 of them it adds up.

As I was looking more for a durable wheel set this didn't really matter but did get me thinking. when comparing weights of hubs and rims the difference between the top end and bottom end isn't huge. is it always the amount of spokes therefore that really drive the weight of wheels?


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