Motorway through the Peak District

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sfichele
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Motorway through the Peak District

Postby sfichele » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:12 pm

Anyone else seen the news that they are considering a motorway through the North part of the Peak District? :(

Anger over Peak District Motorway Plans

http://www.transportxtra.com/magazines/local_transport_today/news/?id=31308

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Pross
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby Pross » Fri Oct 05, 2012 13:29 pm

It says local authorities are pressing for it. In reality, even if it got support from national government it would probably take 15 years to actually get around to anyone actually building it. Add in the amount of Council and General elections that will take place over that time and there will be plenty of opportunity for back tracking, especially if there is public anger at the proposal, and I doubt you will see this in your lifetime. It appears to have been mooted and shelved several times before. There is also no funding for this type of project at the moment. Bear in mind there have been plans to build a second M4 around Newport for at least 20 years (I think the current position is the plans have been ditched). Local Councils don't make decisions on major motorway routes so it looks to be just talk at the moment.

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alanp23
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby alanp23 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 13:42 pm

As a nearby inhabitant, I would love that motorway to be built. It looks like it would go over the Woodhead or nearby.

Advantages.

1. I could get to Manchester quicker by car.
2. I could go over the Woodhead pass on my bike without fear of being hit by an HGV
3. The traffic jams over that stretch to the M67 would disappear.

Disadvantage.

1. A big motorway across the Penines. But given the fact that the M62 runs across it happily and I think adds to the vista, I am sure that this one could too.

The main question for me would be how it got to the Woodhead. J36 or J37 of M1. That will annoy more people.

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sfichele
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby sfichele » Fri Oct 05, 2012 14:03 pm

Yeah, its definitely been banding around before, in fact the original motorway was meant to go there.
Pathetic Motorways

What gets me is the current government want to greatly weaken planning consent in favour of any economic progress. You could easily argue over any environmental constraints and bulldoze your way through anything once money is the sole objective.

I'm not actually sure how the motorway would link. After all the bottle neck is actually glossop and mottram, so you need to either demolish those or massively bypass them.

As for the view: https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.620412,-2.062426&spn=0.036094,0.087547&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=53.620391,-2.078802&cbp=12,0,,0,0&photoid=po-61124897

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CiB
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby CiB » Fri Oct 05, 2012 14:37 pm

Good idea. As a regular user of the M1 to get from down Sarf to Gtr Manchester (NE side) it would save that ridiculous business of going all the way up to the M62 to come all the way down to the top of Manchester. Bring it on.

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ILM Zero7
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby ILM Zero7 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 14:44 pm

more bloody motorways when the future is a decent rail infrastructure. i have just come back from 2 days in Holland - it makes our rail network look like a mickey mouse antique
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CiB
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby CiB » Fri Oct 05, 2012 15:13 pm

ILM Zero7 wrote:more bloody motorways when the future is a decent rail infrastructure. i have just come back from 2 days in Holland - it makes our rail network look like a mickey mouse antique

And when we try to build a decent rail link - HS2 anyone? - the whole country goes bonkers about it. I was surveyed last week down some remote country lane that crosses the intended line of it.

tiredofwhiners
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby tiredofwhiners » Fri Oct 05, 2012 15:45 pm

ILM Zero7 wrote:more bloody motorways when the future is a decent rail infrastructure. i have just come back from 2 days in Holland - it makes our rail network look like a mickey mouse antique


The maximum gradient for a railway in the uk is 1:11.

You can forget getting a new railway to go over to top of the Pennines as there isn't the passenger demand and the route would have to wind all around the area to keep the gradient down to a sensible number. The best you'd get would be a new carriage on an existing train but only if they could seriously up the traction.

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Mr Goo
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby Mr Goo » Fri Oct 05, 2012 22:29 pm

Will be nice and quiet at the Dog and Partridge if this gets built.
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Tom Butcher
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby Tom Butcher » Fri Oct 05, 2012 22:58 pm

I can see the argument for it but is nothing sacred ? It's the Peak District - it isn't just the loss of the land the noise from a motorway is very very intrusive.
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The Little Onion
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby The Little Onion » Sat Oct 06, 2012 13:03 pm

It is also a national park, don't forget. this aint gonna happen

With regards railways - the transpennine railways have been waiting since the 50s for electrification. Should be here by 2017, which should improve reliability and speed (electric trains are lighter than diesels, so they can cope with the hills better).

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Rolf F
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby Rolf F » Sat Oct 06, 2012 16:44 pm

tiredofwhiners wrote:
ILM Zero7 wrote:more bloody motorways when the future is a decent rail infrastructure. i have just come back from 2 days in Holland - it makes our rail network look like a mickey mouse antique


The maximum gradient for a railway in the uk is 1:11.

You can forget getting a new railway to go over to top of the Pennines as there isn't the passenger demand and the route would have to wind all around the area to keep the gradient down to a sensible number. The best you'd get would be a new carriage on an existing train but only if they could seriously up the traction.


Yep - totally hopeless. If only there was an unused tunnel through the Pennines already there and an almost completely intact trackbed built to mainline standards linking Manchester and Sheffield then it would be so simple........

As for the motorway - terrible idea. Just generates more traffic. Won't happen anyway. Besides - a bit impolite surely? The peaks is a nice place and needs to stay nice. If you want to get from one side to the other on a motorway, you can go round. If you want lots of motorways about, move to where they already are - it's a lot easier :wink:


PS 1 in 11?! Are you sure about that? :wink:
Last edited by Rolf F on Sat Oct 06, 2012 21:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The_Special_One
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby The_Special_One » Sat Oct 06, 2012 17:42 pm

Build a new junction on the M1 somewhere between J36 and 37 which links to a 3 laned tunnel in each direction under the Peak District coming out at the start of the M67.

Problem solved.

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dodgy
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby dodgy » Sat Oct 06, 2012 18:08 pm

All that happens when you build new roads is that the traffic naturally expands to fill the space. Proven time and again in this country.

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OffTheBackAdam
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby OffTheBackAdam » Sat Oct 06, 2012 21:19 pm

More traffic is indicative of economic growth.

tiredofwhiners
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby tiredofwhiners » Sat Oct 06, 2012 21:27 pm

The_Special_One wrote:Build a new junction on the M1 somewhere between J36 and 37 which links to a 3 laned tunnel in each direction under the Peak District coming out at the start of the M67.

Problem solved.


Why spend tens of billions on a tunnel to go between Manchester and Sheffield ? Its only a few miles more to use the M62 or to come off earlier and use the A50.

A sense of perspective goes a long way and there is zero demand for that level of investment. The money would be better spent on another Channel Tunnel.

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Ginjafro
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby Ginjafro » Sat Oct 06, 2012 23:00 pm

I used to live south of Manchester over 20 years ago. Traveling by car from Macclesfield, Alderley Edge, or Wilmslow area to Manchester Piccadilly used to take about half an hour. Since then various "upgraded" roads, by-passes and motorways have multiplied in the region. Recent visits to Manchester during the last 4 years or so have, in my experience, shown a massive increase in traffic and congestion and no quicker in the time to get anywhere, often slower. Worse still, was such commutes today, are far more stressful than years ago. Returning back to the South West is always such a relief. The Motorway stops at Exeter and we have to make do with the A30 and A38 to get to most places and you know what? The traffic, congestion, delays and associated stress are minor in comparison.

Experience tells me this: build more roads - attract more traffic - increased journey time - more noise, more pollution and more stress. I certainly wouldn't like to cycle to Manchester on a regular basis.
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The_Special_One
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby The_Special_One » Sun Oct 07, 2012 09:46 am

tiredofwhiners wrote:
The_Special_One wrote:Build a new junction on the M1 somewhere between J36 and 37 which links to a 3 laned tunnel in each direction under the Peak District coming out at the start of the M67.

Problem solved.


Why spend tens of billions on a tunnel to go between Manchester and Sheffield ? Its only a few miles more to use the M62 or to come off earlier and use the A50.

A sense of perspective goes a long way and there is zero demand for that level of investment. The money would be better spent on another Channel Tunnel.



I wasn't been serious with my post.

If it's only a ' few miles ' more to use the M62, then why do a hell of a lot of HGV drivers take the slow slog across the Woodhead.

Clearly it isn't just a few miles more to use the M62. If you're coming from the Leeds / West Yorkshire area then the M62 is a sensible route to take if heading over the Pennines.

Anything from the Barnsley area and south going via the M62 is a bit of a detour. There is a need for a better road link over the Pennines between South Yorkshire and the Manchester area, but I wouldn't want to see a new motorway cut through the Peak District and in all honesty it would never get built anyway. Maybe the Woodhead could be upgraded to a duel carriageway.

When back up north in Sheffield I prefer the Woodhead way more than useing the A57 Sanke Pass, it's just a right PITA if you get stuck behind a couple of HGV's.

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sfichele
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby sfichele » Sun Oct 07, 2012 20:11 pm

Thought I'd cycle out to the area today, as a live close by

Photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/88183471@N05/8064079657/in/photostream

Video:
http://youtu.be/HlNvXhVgUE0

The image shows the A628 in red. It's hard to see the cars and trucks on it unless you zoom in, which is why I've highlighted it. In real life it's quite easy to see the road, and if it was a motorway it would savage that landscape like axe wound through ya head. The smaller images are from the Strines a few miles south, but are indicative of the area around here. To the south of the motorway, further up the road, you have some beautiful moor land that backs on to the Derwent reservoir (famous for the Dam Busters). To the north and right in the picture you have Holme moss.

There are very few places left in England that are truly remote and unspoilt, do we really need a motorway through it so that a Tesco lorry can carry yet more crap to another depot 15 minutes faster than taking the M62.

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thegibdog
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Re: Motorway through the Peak District

Postby thegibdog » Sun Oct 07, 2012 21:18 pm

Well, it'd make Snake Pass a better place to cycle...


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