Crank arm came off new bike

General bike chat that does not fit elsewhere
cofitom1
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Crank arm came off new bike

Postby cofitom1 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 15:08 pm

Hello

New to the forum and looking for advice

Recently had my bike stolen, took delivery of Specialized Tarmac bike last month and during a ride last week my crank arm worked loose and fell off just over 2 weeks after purchase resulting with me hitting the deck. Damage to bike - scratched brake hood, pedal, crank arm, rear derailleur, slight buckle to wheel and some lovely bike rash!

Been back to the bike shop to complain only to be accused of not maintaining my bike properly saying I should have checked the bike over more thoroughly before going out on a ride - they have re-fixed crank arm and reset wheel but only because I was due a free service but basically told me to check bike thoroughly in future and put some locktite on. They said it was common for crank arms to fall off these bikes as they had a low torque setting

Obviously not happy with their response or their attitude to the problem, just felt that they passing the blame onto me

I'm no expert but I don't think a crank arm should be falling off a 2 week old bike, so basically looking for advice as to what course of action to take

Any advice would be appreciated - many thanks

Tom

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♠ChumBucket♠
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby ♠ChumBucket♠ » Sun Oct 07, 2012 15:18 pm

If that's the case then IMO they should have fore-warned you of this & advised you accordingly! Did they? If they didn't then they are responsible as they were aware of a possible danger & so put you at risk!

I bought a MTB in April & they advised me to do this after the very first ride & then periodically after- which I have done & it has never loosened a mm.
Last edited by ♠ChumBucket♠ on Sun Oct 07, 2012 15:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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farrina
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby farrina » Sun Oct 07, 2012 15:31 pm

The only time a crank has come loose on me is when I did not tighten it properly having previously removed it.

Some bike shop ....they say attack is the best form of defence. Personally I would look elsewhere or better still acquire some tools and do it yourself. Most maintenance tasks are straight forward and in the longer term you will save yourself a packet.

It's common for wheels to fall off Ford cars rather than Vauxhalls as they have lower wheel torque setting .... I think not strikes me as a bit of a tale ...

Best wishes

Alan
Last edited by farrina on Mon Oct 08, 2012 06:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
Regards
Alan

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JGSI
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby JGSI » Sun Oct 07, 2012 16:30 pm

cofitom1 wrote:Hello

and put some locktite on. They said it was common for crank arms to fall off these bikes as they had a low torque setting



Tom
Bllx, is this Hollowtech on the non drive side?
They forgot to tighten the 2 bolts on the crank, and they dont fall off due to lack of locktite.

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giant man
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby giant man » Sun Oct 07, 2012 17:17 pm

that's disgusting of the LBS to blame you. Surely they're blaming you for their shoddy work, dreadful. Hope you are not going back to them to give more your money to them. Please name and shame!
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Neil Buckley
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby Neil Buckley » Sun Oct 07, 2012 18:00 pm

Name and shame far and wide, then go to trading standards!
Helmand Province is such a nice place.....

tiredofwhiners
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby tiredofwhiners » Sun Oct 07, 2012 18:01 pm

Pop in to the shop when you can see the dope who spun you a yarn isn't around and ask to see the manager. Give him the opportunity to apologise etc.

The excuse given is pathetic.

Simon Masterson
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby Simon Masterson » Sun Oct 07, 2012 18:21 pm

It's no bad idea to check crank bolts after a ride or two following installation of a new bottom bracket or crank, but that sounds highly dubious to me.

Working slightly loose and needing to be tightened is a world away from coming off; that is a serious problem to have on a bike. A bike shop should sell you a bike that is basically safe to ride and preferably carefully tuned to perform well. A small gesture that will make a world of difference to the rider, that a good bike shop will be only too pleased to provide. If after a month the brakes/rear derailleur need adjusting, or the chain needs lubricating, or whatever, that isn't the shop's problem. Cranks falling off, not so. I don't consider a bike to be safe, let alone set up properly, if the crank is likely to fall off.

What's next; handlebars coming off in your hand because they forgot to tighten the headset?

Just Cannondales
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby Just Cannondales » Sun Oct 07, 2012 18:31 pm

Does it say anything in the bikes hadbook about tightning the crank arm up?

If not (highly likely) go back to the bike shop and ask them to sort it out.

Richard...

99thmonkey
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby 99thmonkey » Sun Oct 07, 2012 18:52 pm

Theres also a plastic retainer that prevents that very thing happening too!

Very strange

cofitom1
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby cofitom1 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 19:20 pm

Many thanks for all the quick responses - very much appreciated

In answer to your questions

No they didn't advise me in the shop about this risk and i've had a quick look at the handbook and cannot see any reference to this either

It was the crank arm on the non drive side that came off

Since popsting i've managed to get hold of a friend of mine who's a keen cyclist and a trading standards officer and she's sent me a lot of info regarding the Sale of Goods Act 1979 to give to the bike shop. She also happened to be doing a sportive today and Specialized had a stall there and the rep told her that i should contact them directly with regards to this.

So think i'll attack on both fronts tomorrow and see what happens

Thanks again for the advice and i'll let you know how I get on

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sungod
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby sungod » Sun Oct 07, 2012 19:33 pm

shop is talking utter tosh, at minimum report the matter to trading standards

the shop has a duty of care, they failed to build the bike correctly, you have a reasonable expectation that supplied goods will be fit for purpose, but it seems the bike was actually supplied in a dangerous condition and as a result it was damaged and you were injured

imagine if you bought a car and a poorly fitted wheel fell off and you crashed, or a toaster electrocuted you because they wired it wrong, there's no difference

take pictures of all injuries while fresh, also take pictures of all damage to the bike, clothing, etc.

you could sue them for damages but it'd be a hassle, a better approach is a straight letter (trading standards might have some advice), i'd say stick to the facts, no opinion/emotion, set out the events and dates/times, including what the staff said, and state that you require that they repair *all* damage, including cosmetic, caused by their failure to take reasonable care, ask for a date when they will do it by, request a written response within 10 working days, head the letter "without prejudice" and keep the contents to yourself (not this forum or others)

is it an independent lbs, or one of a chain? the latter is probably easier to deal with, they should realise they are stuffed and settle amicably
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tiredofwhiners
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby tiredofwhiners » Sun Oct 07, 2012 19:42 pm

Don't waste your time with Trading Standards.

Posters seem fixated in some kind of belief that they will wield a big stick and do something. They won't. Their interest is in premeditated fraud - not a simple mistake, no matter how bad it may be for you personally. Unless you intend to prove they have been mass producing defective items deliberately then you're wasting your time. The bike shop will say its a one-off, never happened and thats the end of it.

They have more important things to worry about than 'my crank arm fell off two weeks after I bought a bike'. There's no way you can prove you didn't tamper with it, nobody was hurt and presumably there isn't a local epidemic of incidents. Presumably you have witnesses to prove you just didn;t fall off your bike and are looking to blame someone ?

The suggestions that its like a defective toaster is wrong. Trading standards would take it up with the manufacturer - not the local Argos. The same with cars - if a wheel fell off the Trading standards wouldn't get you anywhere either.

Sh*t happens - take it up with the LBS and don't expect others to intervene on one-off events.

andrewjoseph
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby andrewjoseph » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:18 am

To the OP, didn't you feel the crank loosening prior to falling off?

The thing is, once out the doors of the shop, the bike is your responsibility. For all the shop, or anyone else knows, you could have fettled with the bike and didn't tighten things up properly.

You had the bike two weeks, and possibly several rides, before the incident? If the crank was that loose from the start, you should have noticed straight away. If it was the first ride and it was loose, you should have spotted it.

It always amazes me that people don't check their bikes over before a ride.
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diy
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby diy » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:49 pm

I think you have a claim for damages. Its not surprising they are taking this stance since this could get expensive.

Firstly you are well inside the period for the fault to be deemed pre-existing at the point of sale, so in law the fault existed at the time they sold it to you.

Assess your damages to put everything right, attach a monitory value to it. Issue a letter before claim outlining what you consider is acceptable in order to avoid legal action. Better still if you have legal insurance call them.

Give them 2 weeks to respond. If they enter a dialogue to improve their offer then consider it.

Act quickly otherwise you could be argued to have accepted their remedy.

mabbo
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby mabbo » Mon Oct 08, 2012 14:40 pm

Methinks whomever is telling you this is telling porkies.

I've had my latest bike for two two and a half years, 6000 miles. Crank arm has never come loose.

I also still have my original Giant from 1990. Lost count of how many miles that's done.................and the crank never fell off that either !!!!

Load of old B??***cks if you ask me.

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ILM Zero7
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby ILM Zero7 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 17:41 pm

and the moral is - get a good groupset :)
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Edindevon
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby Edindevon » Mon Oct 08, 2012 21:47 pm

I think it's worth quoting the Shimano document on their Hollowtech II Cranksets. The document clearly states:

The two left crank arm mounting bolts should be tightened alternately in stages rather than each bolt being fully tightened all at once. Use a torque wrench to check that the final tightening torques are within the range of 12 - 14 N·m. Furthermore, after riding approximately 100 km (60 miles), use a torque wrench to re-check the tightening torques. It is also important to periodically check the tightening torques. If the tightening torques are too weak or if the mounting bolts are not tightened alternately in stages, the left crank arm may come off and the bicycle may fall over, and serious injury may occur as a result.

So yes, the shop should have warned you about the risk, but it is wrong to suggest that the problem must have been a consequence of them not tightening the bolts correctly.

Edindevon

99thmonkey
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby 99thmonkey » Tue Oct 09, 2012 05:48 am

The shop probably didnt build that bike as they come out of the box from Specialized with the cranks on! The shop simply check it over, either way its very very strange and needs addressing

farrina
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Re: Crank arm came off new bike

Postby farrina » Tue Oct 09, 2012 07:21 am

Edindevon wrote:I think it's worth quoting the Shimano document on their Hollowtech II Cranksets. The document clearly states:
The two left crank arm mounting bolts should be tightened alternately in stages rather than each bolt being fully tightened all at once. Use a torque wrench to check that the final tightening torques are within the range of 12 - 14 N·m. Furthermore, after riding approximately 100 km (60 miles), use a torque wrench to re-check the tightening torques. It is also important to periodically check the tightening torques. If the tightening torques are too weak or if the mounting bolts are not tightened alternately in stages, the left crank arm may come off and the bicycle may fall over, and serious injury may occur as a result.
Edindevon


When you read a number of the Shimano technical documents the above type of comments are a recurring theme.

It strikes me that they have been written by a lawyer rather than an engineer ....

Regards

Alan
Regards
Alan


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