Leinders

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iainf72
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Leinders

Postby iainf72 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 18:40 pm

It appears he didn't stand up to scrutiny.....
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

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RichN95
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Re: Leinders

Postby RichN95 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 19:25 pm

iainf72 wrote:It appears he didn't stand up to scrutiny.....


Or he did, but he wasn't worth the hassle. I predicted long ago that regardless of wha he did or didn't do, he wasn't going to get a new contract.
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iainf72
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Re: Leinders

Postby iainf72 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 19:29 pm

You need to be upfront about it. The cynic is me says they looked, found some ugliness and know it's going to come out in the the Rabobank trial in a couple of weeks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence

If Sky have a howler next year, then it will just convince people that they were doped to the gills by him this year.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

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RichN95
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Re: Leinders

Postby RichN95 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 19:43 pm

The pragmatist in me says they didn't have an investigation and never intended to. They just bought time until his contract was up and then got rid. The number of times I've told hockey authorities, "I'll look into it" despite knowing all the facts already....

iainf72 wrote:If Sky have a howler next year, then it will just convince people that they were doped to the gills by him this year.

With that in mind, in retrospect, stopping Kimmage following them on the 2010 Tour was the smartest move they ever made. Had he been there, it would have been 'look how bad they are when they can't dope'.
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iainf72
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Re: Leinders

Postby iainf72 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 19:50 pm

That doesn't make them "transparent" then and Kimmage is right again - if they didn't do the investigation. If they did and have got rid of him, they need to figure out how to manage it. Because with the upcoming Rabo case they could look very very stupid.

Seriously - If they had an ex-doping doctor this year and did well, and don't do well next year, it doesn't matter what happens, that will be the story.
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

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RichN95
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Re: Leinders

Postby RichN95 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 19:55 pm

iainf72 wrote:Seriously - If they had an ex-doping doctor this year and did well, and don't do well next year, it doesn't matter what happens, that will be the story.


And if they do just as well, it will be because they are secretly still hiring him. You can't win with some people.

(I'm still yet to see anything to link Leinders to actually doping anyone).
Last edited by RichN95 on Tue Oct 09, 2012 19:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leinders

Postby inkyfingers » Tue Oct 09, 2012 19:57 pm

iainf72 wrote:
Seriously - If they had an ex-doping doctor this year and did well, and don't do well next year, it doesn't matter what happens, that will be the story.


It will be a big story if you're Festinagirl. For most of us it will just be another footnote in cycling's dodgy history.
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iainf72
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Re: Leinders

Postby iainf72 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 19:58 pm

RichN95 wrote:
iainf72 wrote:Seriously - If they had an ex-doping doctor this year and did well, and don't do well next year, it doesn't matter what happens, that will be the story.


And if they do just as well, it will be because they are secretly still hiring him. You can't win with some people.


Well no, that just means their "enabler" is the guy from Cervelo who no one seems to know what he does.

Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

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ThomThom
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Re: Leinders

Postby ThomThom » Tue Oct 09, 2012 20:04 pm

Sky has handled this Leinders-thing like a disaster. It started when they said they were unaware of his 'history'.

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RichN95
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Re: Leinders

Postby RichN95 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 20:16 pm

iainf72 wrote:Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?

Well that depends on what actually happened at Rabobank. I've yet to see anything to implicate him as a 'doping doctor'.
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ThomThom
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Re: Leinders

Postby ThomThom » Tue Oct 09, 2012 20:30 pm

RichN95 wrote:
iainf72 wrote:Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?

Well that depends on what actually happened at Rabobank. I've yet to see anything to implicate him as a 'doping doctor'.


http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/ ... 007_216925

Also, you do know why he left Rabo in the first place, right?

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Re: Leinders

Postby aspender » Tue Oct 09, 2012 20:36 pm

RichN95 wrote:
iainf72 wrote:Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?

Well that depends on what actually happened at Rabobank. I've yet to see anything to implicate him as a 'doping doctor'.


This.

There's a potential world of difference between a Ferrari character and a doctor who realises that if doping is going to happen anyway then it may at least be prudent to ensure it happens safely. They are a fair way apart on the ethical scale.

Both are not 'innocent' but there are degrees of guilt. I've not read anything that suggests that Leinders would act in the same way he may have done at Rabo if in an environment in which the doping issue wasn't already present. Does he have experience of doping? Yes. Does that mean he will encourage it wherever he works? No.

Sky were stupid to recruit him in hindsight due to the potential for reputational damage as Brailsford admitted, but it is a bit of a stretch to claim his employment = doping.

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RichN95
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Re: Leinders

Postby RichN95 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 20:39 pm

ThomThom wrote:
RichN95 wrote:
iainf72 wrote:Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?

Well that depends on what actually happened at Rabobank. I've yet to see anything to implicate him as a 'doping doctor'.


ThomThom wrote:http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/05/news/newswire-doping-tolerated-at-rabobank-until-2007_216925

I must be missing something. Where does it say his name? Or that any doctors at Rabo were administering doping. The quote "The paper claims that the choice of drugs was the responsibility of the rider, but that team doctors made sure their health was not at risk." suggests they were getting the doping outside the team.

ThomThom wrote:Also, you do know why he left Rabo in the first place, right?

No. And neither do you. It was some unspecified dispute about team policy. Some suggest it was due Rabo's 'zero tolerance' policy introduced at the end of 2007, which makes it odd that they kept employing the 'notorious' Leinders for another two years.
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itisaboutthebike
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Re: Leinders

Postby itisaboutthebike » Thu Oct 11, 2012 00:30 am

It appears he didn't stand up to scrutiny.....


when ?
Bye bye Patty boy - you scumbag !

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Re: Leinders

Postby tommasi » Thu Oct 11, 2012 01:10 am


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finchy
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Re: Leinders

Postby finchy » Thu Oct 11, 2012 15:02 pm

iainf72 wrote:Can we at least agree that if you were taking your recruitment seriously, Leidners wouldn't have passed the pre-employment screening?


I'm not completely au fait with the whole Dr Geert story - was there any evidence to suggest that he had any role in Rabobank doping before 2012?

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gabriel959
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Re: Leinders

Postby gabriel959 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:18 pm

I might be missing something but doesn't it appear in the USADA evidence something about Geert Leinders selling Levi EPO?
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Timoid.
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Re: Leinders

Postby Timoid. » Fri Oct 12, 2012 14:19 pm

I keep reading this topic as Fleinders

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nic_77
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Re: Leinders

Postby nic_77 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 14:22 pm

gabriel959 wrote:I might be missing something but doesn't it appear in the USADA evidence something about Geert Leinders selling Levi EPO?


It says by 'the Rabobank team doctor'. The doctor's name is redacted as 'Other-8'.

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LangerDan
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Re: Leinders

Postby LangerDan » Fri Oct 12, 2012 14:53 pm

nic_77 wrote:
gabriel959 wrote:I might be missing something but doesn't it appear in the USADA evidence something about Geert Leinders selling Levi EPO?


It says by 'the Rabobank team doctor'. The doctor's name is redacted as 'Other-8'.


Some over in the Clinic has been faffing around with the PDFs of the testimonies - who ever the doctor is, they can make out an "s" at the end of the name. They even went to the trouble of writing out "Geert Leinders" in the same font / size as the document and compared it with the spacing of the blanked-out name and it matches.

Mind you, so would "Maude Flanders" (just to keep with Timoid's theme)
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