Cavendish has left..

Talk about competitive road cycling in all its forms
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nweststeyn
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby nweststeyn » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:38 am

As I said above Frenchie, I don't have a problem with it. I was merely pointing out that some might! As RickyMac has said above, many Pro Photographers have an issue with this. I'm not one, but was merely stating that you are definitely taking a risk - not necessarily when you link to photos, but definitely when you edit them (which I know you do sometimes).

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Escher303
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Escher303 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:00 am

Thanks FF but really it comes down to seeking permission first, being able to take them is not the issue, you can easily circumvent any site that hosts them, regardless of the security features. When I post my images I mark them as copyrighted and state that if someone wishes to use them to please ask first, whether downloads are permitted or not is immaterial. Often when someone asks I am happy for them to do so if it is for non commercial usage, I am not happy when permission is not sought, it is solely my permission to give.

If an image is taken and uploaded to another site the link can be broken to where it is hosted originally, then someone can come along to where it has been uploaded without permission, find no info about copyright or who owns it and take it again. Once this happens control over it is lost and it can quickly proliferate in multiple places. Many clients want unique photos for branding and advertising (this is where I sell I am also a photog) and will not buy images that have spread across the internet as their brand will be associated with all the places the images are used, on different forums and the like. That image, once taken then becomes unsaleable and the time I took to create it is wasted, and it can take me a full day to create just one. The free advertising does not help me in that case. Sometimes free advertising can be useful but it is up to me to decide when. If someone asks to use something for free and I am happy with it then I can ask them to credit me and to include a few links. If they don't ask I don't get that opportunity. It is the responsibility of you to seek permission, not my responsibility to stop you taking them.

The terms of service on places like Tumblr, Flickr etc. state that you should not take without permission, just because so many people completely ignore those terms does not make it right. But it is easy to understand why some people might hence Rickymac brining this up. Us photogs are fighting this as much as we can but we're losing, but I'm not ready to give up yet and I try to point out why it is wrong to do it, it costs me money in my pocket, you might not think so but it's a fact. Images can take a lot of time and money to create and yet many people think they are free to take without permission. Just seek permission first it's as simple as that.

RickyMac
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby RickyMac » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:06 am

Escher303 wrote:Thanks FF but really it comes down to seeking permission first, being able to take them is not the issue, you can easily circumvent any site that hosts them, regardless of the security features. When I post my images I mark them as copyrighted and state that if someone wishes to use them to please ask first, whether downloads are permitted or not is immaterial. Often when someone asks I am happy for them to do so if it is for non commercial usage, I am not happy when permission is not sought, it is solely my permission to give.

If an image is taken and uploaded to another site the link can be broken to where it is hosted originally, then someone can come along to where it has been uploaded without permission, find no info about copyright or who owns it and take it again. Once this happens control over it is lost and it can quickly proliferate in multiple places. Many clients want unique photos for branding and advertising (this is where I sell I am also a photog) and will not buy images that have spread across the internet as their brand will be associated with all the places the images are used, on different forums and the like. That image, once taken then becomes unsaleable and the time I took to create it is wasted, and it can take me a full day to create just one. The free advertising does not help me in that case. Sometimes free advertising can be useful but it is up to me to decide when. If someone asks to use something for free and I am happy with it then I can ask them to credit me and to include a few links. If they don't ask I don't get that opportunity. It is the responsibility of you to seek permission, not my responsibility to stop you taking them.

The terms of service on places like Tumblr, Flickr etc. state that you should not take without permission, just because so many people completely ignore those terms does not make it right. But it is easy to understand why some people might hence Rickymac brining this up. Us photogs are fighting this as much as we can but we're losing, but I'm not ready to give up yet and I try to point out why it is wrong to do it, it costs me money in my pocket, you might not think so but it's a fact. Images can take a lot of time and money to create and yet many people think they are free to take without permission. Just seek permission first it's as simple as that.


What Escher303 says^^

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frenchfighter
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby frenchfighter » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:11 am

Glad to hear your points escher.

Nice name too - love that artist. The Escher Museum in The Hague is worth a visit.
Contador is the Greatest

Insideinfo
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Insideinfo » Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:15 am

*** UPDATE ***

Spoke to the best mates, girlfiends, contact in pro racing (for those of you that moaned i put 'friend' :-)) last night, asked for any more goss and she said her friend mentioned she was at a charity do and some of the riders were there gossiping about next year, and one of the topics was Cav joining. She didnt hear much else but did hear that.

Still, could all be bull, but will keep you posted.

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Nick Fitt
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Nick Fitt » Thu Oct 11, 2012 13:08 pm

Insideinfo wrote:*** UPDATE ***

Spoke to the best mates, girlfiends, contact in pro racing (for those of you that moaned i put 'friend' :-)) last night, asked for any more goss and she said her friend mentioned she was at a charity do and some of the riders were there gossiping about next year, and one of the topics was Cav joining. She didnt hear much else but did hear that.

Still, could all be bull, but will keep you posted.

:lol:

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Simmotino
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Simmotino » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:10 pm

frenchfighter wrote:Thanks for the comments. If people are taking your photos, you can try and disable this functionality. (Flickr is the easiest example of this - most are open to copy, but some you cannot and it says' user has disabled downloading...' but you can do it on most websites I believe - ask the web developer). Got it, re Getty, am aware of it, and don't get photos from their site (I don't even think you can).

All the stuff I post comes from all over, personal users submitting photos for others enjoyment, blogs, cycling sites, tumblr, etc. I never take things direct from a photographer's website. If there is a photo with the photographer's name on it (like the Sky car above), it is taken from somewhere else (I cannot remember where I found the one above).

I can only say that I have zero personal gain from it and can only see that it would help a photographer to get exposure (assuming it is a photo from a professional photographer with a credit). All the photos here are of a low res and if people want . On occasion users would like hi-res of some photos and if I know I can direct them to the site where they can purchase them (so most photos posted with small res on sites like this are of little value as if someone likes something they are unlikely to buy a small photo, more like a large print to go on the wall). I am also in contact with a couple of photographers and have recommended and extolled the skills of some as well as providing sites etc.

A lot of photographers make some money by providing summary shots of the races to various websites - if you haven't already, maybe you could find some that don't have any already, and offer your services in that manner, in order to find an additional source of revenue.

As a pro photographer, can you link to your site so we can take a look?


So, what you are saying is, you are doing these photographers a favour rather than infringing their copyright?

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LangerDan
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby LangerDan » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:18 pm

frenchfighter wrote: Got it, re Getty, am aware of it, and don't get photos from their site (I don't even think you can).


FF - do a search for "Getty" in this forum - they are tagged on the file name of a significant number of photos you upload - even recently.
'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'

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frenchfighter
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby frenchfighter » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:32 pm

Got it. I was referring to their direct site. When I know it is a shot by Getty I mentioned at the top as you are aware. The other ones with Getty in the link - not sure which sites, blogs, tumblrs they are individually from and normally don't read the link code.
Last edited by frenchfighter on Thu Oct 11, 2012 16:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Richmond Racer
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Richmond Racer » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:37 pm

frenchfighter wrote:Got it. I was referring to their direct site. When I know it is a shot by Getty I mentioned at the top as you are aware. The other ones with Getty in the link - not sure which sites, blogs, tumblrs they are individually from and normally don't read the link code.



FF, a mate of mine worked for Getty for a while. As the other poster said, they're flipping litigious.

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frenchfighter
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby frenchfighter » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:39 pm

As far as I was aware, Getty letters (sent by third parties), regarding use of their photos, has been (understandably) directed towards unpaid for commerical use.

There are also known to be most litigious as they are the largest corp by miles.
Contador is the Greatest

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nic_77
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby nic_77 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 18:04 pm

Richmond Racer wrote:FF, a mate of mine worked for Getty for a while.

For crying out loud, ask him (or his girlfriend) where Cav is going. :lol:

Richmond Racer
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Richmond Racer » Thu Oct 11, 2012 18:06 pm

nic_77 wrote:
Richmond Racer wrote:FF, a mate of mine worked for Getty for a while.

For crying out loud, ask him (or his girlfriend) where Cav is going. :lol:



hang on, calling her now...She says Rapha-Condor-Sharp - they get Cav to ride crits next year, Sky get the nice togs :wink:

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Le Commentateur
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Le Commentateur » Thu Oct 11, 2012 21:20 pm

andyp wrote:
Le Commentateur wrote:Freire has just made a space available with his retirement and Cav's former lead-out man Renshaw is already at Rabobank.


Freire was riding for Katusha in 2012, he left Rabobank at the end of last season.

Good try though. :wink:

Damn, shows how anonymous he's been though.

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murf1480
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby murf1480 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 21:44 pm

Insideinfo wrote:*** UPDATE ***

Spoke to the best mates, girlfiends, contact in pro racing (for those of you that moaned i put 'friend' :-)) last night, asked for any more goss and she said her friend mentioned she was at a charity do and some of the riders were there gossiping about next year, and one of the topics was Cav joining. She didnt hear much else but did hear that.

Still, could all be bull, but will keep you posted.



Cav is that you.
Your just trying to start rumours aren't you lol :D

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Omar Little
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Omar Little » Thu Oct 11, 2012 21:50 pm

If photographers were paying royalties to all the subjects in the photos they sell then complaints about copyright theft towards someone posting a few photos, on a non commercial basis, on a forum would have more merit. Treat it as appreciation of your work and art.

If someone is trying to make a quick buck off your work then that is an entirely different matter.

Insideinfo
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Insideinfo » Fri Oct 12, 2012 13:16 pm

murf1480 wrote:
Insideinfo wrote:*** UPDATE ***

Spoke to the best mates, girlfiends, contact in pro racing (for those of you that moaned i put 'friend' :-)) last night, asked for any more goss and she said her friend mentioned she was at a charity do and some of the riders were there gossiping about next year, and one of the topics was Cav joining. She didnt hear much else but did hear that.

Still, could all be bull, but will keep you posted.



Cav is that you.
Your just trying to start rumours aren't you lol :D



Yes im just trying to up my salary and play the big-boys off against each other :D

Markwb79
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Markwb79 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 13:46 pm

I blame Bill Gates

Or who ever came up with the option 'Right Click > SaveAs' on an picture
Scott Addict 2011
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Insideinfo
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Insideinfo » Sun Oct 14, 2012 19:34 pm

***UPDATE***

Latest is hes signed and will be announcing it in 2 weeks time after an end of season break. Definitely Rabobank, you heard it here first.

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Beatmaker
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Re: Cavendish has left..

Postby Beatmaker » Sun Oct 14, 2012 19:41 pm

Is this your blog? http://www.inthegc.com/2012/10/sunday-shorts-pro-cycling-season-over.html

If not, well done. You've been quoted in a cycling gossip column :D


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