Armstrong - my take on it

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Bozman
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Bozman » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:13 pm

upperoilcan wrote:
The damage this has done to Road cycling in general is unrepairable..



The only damage done is in the minds of people who know squat about cycling, to everyone else it's old news and generally the sport has turned a corner.

It's quite funny the way the media are asking - " Do you feel let down by Armstrong?" ....... no, why should i, he was still the best of that era whether he took drugs or didn't because most of the peloton were at it and that's just the way the sport was then, it was an uneven even playing field.

Plus I don't know how you can class it as cheating, Ben Johnson cheated because he was the only one of eight, the top eight TDF finishers were all probably on something.

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Cannock Chase
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Cannock Chase » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:33 pm

LiamW wrote:...Drugs in cycling has been there since the 60's. Why has it taken to 2012 to do something about it as you say?

Some have been trying to something about it since 1967 when Tommy Simpson died. Unfortunately the do-badders are more determined than the do-gooders..!! Perhaps this high profile case may be the shot in the arm (no pun intended..) that cycling needs. But somehow........
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Team4Luke
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Team4Luke » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:40 pm

yet other american sports are full of almost approved doping, will the americans be going for more of their own or just any american athlete who happens to be a cyclist.................
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Silverbull
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Silverbull » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:57 pm

giant man wrote:I do agree, he doesn't give a $hit about the actual racing or pro cycling in general imo. His recent comments, which was reported on road.cc just shows the absolute arrogance of the man.

http://road.cc/content/news/68569-lance ... -sanctions

Armstrong’s lawyer Mark Fabiani, describing the blood analysis as representing “no evidence at all,” insisted there was a clear dividing line between those who dope and those who ride clean and that his client had never crossed it.


Clever lawyer speak there... No word of a lie.... Never rode clean... What a douchbag

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greentea
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby greentea » Thu Oct 11, 2012 13:40 pm

Drugs or not, i think it was at a time when everyone was taking it anyway, so its not like it was an un-level playing field. The only thing Armstrong has done was to do the whole doping thing better than the others.

I don't agree with the testosterone stuff, the guy didn't have any balls so to take a testosterone supplement to me is just leveling the playing field for himself as all the other riders had balls so therefore were producing testosterone.

What gets me is the double-standards. They have got ex-riders to say Armstrong doped but they don't mention the fact that if the ex-riders were doping, along with all the other ex-riders, then who was actually clean? because from where i'm sitting they were all taking it, which means no one had a complete advantage, so whats the big deal? how credible are these ex-dopers if they doped? no one seems to be asking this. You wouldnt believe the words of an alcoholic pointing the finger at another guy accusing him of being alcoholic would you?

Doped or not, the guy has still had to drag his ass over 7 Tour de France races, its not like its a walk in the park even with EPO in his system. Im sure if we all took EPO it wouldnt mean we would all suddenly be able to take on the Tour.

The trouble with this enquiry is that its taking modern day ethics and applying them to a time when there werent any. So what do we do? go back and round up every person whos called a black man a 'nigga' because we dont accept it anymore? grab everyones Jim Fixed It For Me badges back because it turns out hes a kiddy-fiddler? where does it end?

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Grill
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Grill » Thu Oct 11, 2012 13:44 pm

How naive. As I said it had nothing to do with his doping, but the fact that he ran a ring that went deeper than anyone thought.

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Joeblack
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Joeblack » Thu Oct 11, 2012 13:52 pm

Honestly this is getting way to much attention, like Tiger Woods doing the dirty on his misses, no one cares cuz everyone's at it.

When I get up and go to work tomorrow do you think Lance Armstrongs doping scandal will be on my mind!!

No and it should be on yours either cuz its been and gone. At the end of the day he's no hero he's just a athlete like the rest of them (I could go into how the world does have heroes (soldiers ect) but there's no point) the problem comes when people hold athletes in to high a regard and feel let down when sh1t like this happens.

I don't so I don't.
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stickman
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby stickman » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:11 pm

Who thinks it is ok to be found guilty on the "evidence" of a bunch of vindictive convicted lying drug cheats?
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Grill
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Grill » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:14 pm

stickman wrote:Who thinks it is ok to be found guilty on the "evidence" of a bunch of vindictive convicted lying drug cheats?


:roll:
Have you seen who gave evidence (Hincapie, Zabriskie, et al.)? You must be living in a fantasy world if you think it's more reasonable to assume 20+ people are lying as opposed to one, especially in the face of such overwhelming evidence at a time where EVERYBODY doped.
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stickman
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby stickman » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:21 pm

I am not saying he isn't guilty (or innocent) but people do have a 'if we go down we take him with us' attitude in situations.
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Grill
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Grill » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:30 pm

stickman wrote:I am not saying he isn't guilty (or innocent) but people do have a 'if we go down we take him with us' attitude in situations.


Except that half of those that gave evidence had just as much to lose, and let's not mention those who's lives he's already ruined.

The reason LA didn't let this go to trial is he wanted to keep as much of his dirty laundry a secret as possible.
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Gaspode
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Gaspode » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:41 pm

it was suggested that a large number of those that gave evidence had been offered 'deals' if they testified - makes American 'justice' seem almost as dodgy as the drug cheats themselves.....

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Grill
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Grill » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:47 pm

Again, the naivety here is absurd.

Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that they were not giving evidence against LA- "The 7 time TdF winning athlete", they were giving evidence against LA- "The kingpin of a drug ring that dominated a decade of cyclist from the grassroots all the way to the top".

No one seems to take issue with criminals in an organisation cutting deals to testify against those in charge, and there is nothing different or unique about this case. He was the head of a criminal organisation, and those below him are giving evidence as such.
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NewTTer
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby NewTTer » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:52 pm

Grill wrote:Again, the naivety here is absurd.

Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that they were not giving evidence against LA- "The 7 time TdF winning athlete", they were giving evidence against LA- "The kingpin of a drug ring that dominated a decade of cyclist from the grassroots all the way to the top".

No one seems to take issue with criminals in an organisation cutting deals to testify against those in charge, and there is nothing different or unique about this case. He was the head of a criminal organisation, and those below him are giving evidence as such.

Christ next thing you know there will be a series of films, maybe with Brando playing the lead talking in a daft accent with cotton wool stuffed in his cheeks, and a mellow theme tune sung by the Late Andy Williams.

FFS who really cares, only a bunch of self appointed idiots, it really doesnt make a blind bit of difference, the mountains wont crumble, the skies wont collapse and the rivers wont dry up, some one cheated at sport BIG DEAL, whats new

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Grill
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Grill » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:54 pm

And yet another person completely missing the point of the whole LA debacle. Imagine my surprise...
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NewTTer
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby NewTTer » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:57 pm

Grill wrote:And yet another person completely missing the point of the whole LA debacle. Imagine my surprise...

The person missing the point is the guy in the Mirror go take a look.

The point is only small minded people with boring non entities of lifes will worry about it, the rest of us will move on BECAUSE IT DOESNT F**KING MATTER

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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby meesterbond » Thu Oct 11, 2012 14:58 pm

Grill wrote:
stickman wrote:I am not saying he isn't guilty (or innocent) but people do have a 'if we go down we take him with us' attitude in situations.


Except that half of those that gave evidence had just as much to lose, and let's not mention those who's lives he's already ruined.


Although a few 6 month suspensions given to riders that had mostly retired isn't losing a whole lot. I fully applaud Hincapie, CVV, Leipheimer, DZ etc etc, but they didn't do too badly out of the whole situation and I certainly don't feel sorry for them.

As Grill said, it is not to do with LA doping, it's to do with the systemic, institutional cheating, controlled largely by one man (although how deep Brunyeel is buried will be interesting to watch when that comes to arbitration) who lied, bullied and threatened numerous people to ensure that he won.

Sure, lots of riders around that time were doping, but as far as we're aware, none of them were forcing the entire squad to cheat too. Or maybe they were, but as the USADA only has jurisdiction over US riders, they can't pursue them.

As for it not mattering... if you don't give a ^%$ about the sport, that's fine, but if you do, it matters.

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Grill
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Grill » Thu Oct 11, 2012 15:01 pm

NewTTer wrote:
Grill wrote:And yet another person completely missing the point of the whole LA debacle. Imagine my surprise...

The person missing the point is the guy in the Mirror go take a look.

The point is only small minded people with boring non entities of lifes will worry about it, the rest of us will move on BECAUSE IT DOESNT F**KING MATTER


Calm down there firecracker, no need to get worked up over something that's so unimportant... :P

Whilst none of this has any real bearing on my life, it's nice for us little guys to see criminals actually being caught no matter how much money or influence they have.
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Spaniard
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby Spaniard » Thu Oct 11, 2012 18:34 pm

meesterbond wrote:
verylonglegs wrote:You are 44 and you use yawn as an expression like a teenager. Perhaps forget the blogging and concentrate on your cycling?



Or perhaps actually read some of the findings and then write something meaningful.

There should be enough in the USADA report to keep Armstrong in court for most of the next decade.


So which bit of what I wrote do you actually disagree with? Apart from the use of 'yawn' (which was used facetiously / stylistically!).

Nowhere, do I profess to be an expert, lawyer, authority on these events. As I say in the blog, I'm new to this sport. I was just expressing an opinion and asking the question that doesn't seem to make sense to me...

I should have realised that these forums harbour such hawks, who seem to think that poking the finger at others makes them appear more knowledgeable. Are you an expert? If so, please can you use your superior intellect to enlighten us less fortunate individuals. I have a sneaky suspician that if you had the courage to lay your cards on the table, you may not receive universal agreement from those faceless masses.

Maybe you're right, perhaps, I should forget blogging...?

It certainly doesn't give me any satisfaction getting insults from individuals who can hide behind the forum's anonymity!

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ShutUpLegs
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Re: Armstrong - my take on it

Postby ShutUpLegs » Thu Oct 11, 2012 18:47 pm

Spaniard wrote:
It certainly doesn't give me any satisfaction getting insults from individuals who can hide behind the forum's anonymity!


Then don't post asking for opinions on forums.
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