Wiggins - National Disappointment

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deejay
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby deejay » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:02 pm

dennisn wrote:
No tA Doctor wrote:The biggest disappointment really is that it a single finger, rather than two fingers.


So what's with the two finger thing? Must have a different meaning "over there".

No one really answered that properly for you.
2 fingers with the hand in the forward position is known as the Winston Victory sign.

2 fingers with the back of the hand is the "Feck You" sign or Feck Off interpretation.

The Index finger in the picture is known as "Up Yours" (right up) or Feck You.
An architect who was criticised by Prince Charles and many others over several buildings and a Wobbly Thames Bridge he designed has had the last laugh with a building in the City of London.
Some of us realise the significance of the structure as his answer to his critics by the "Up Yours" building but the media couldn't say that.
So they have named it the Gherkin but each time I come into London Bridge station I always measure it with my Index Finger and it fits with the background of High Rise square office buildings.
I have seen it being measured by others on the train sat in front of me. :roll:
Last edited by deejay on Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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adr82
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby adr82 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:15 pm

steerpike wrote:
Richmond Racer wrote:it's about being human, having human frailties and sometimes making mistakes, often in stressful situations that the vast majority of us will never find outselves in.

Clearly something that some of the people here have mastered.

oh sure, I'm all for sportsmen having frailties - it's what often what makes them appealing. But I'm starting to tire of Wiggins petulance.

Unless you can somehow prove you'd cope better than he has in the same situation (which I doubt), I think you should be prepared to give him a bit of leeway. This time last year he was a virtual unknown to most of the UK public, it's a big change to go from that to being one of the most recognisable people in the country. If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).

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Drumlin
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby Drumlin » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:55 pm

adr82 wrote:If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).


If this was a one off, and/or if he was a young and inexperienced rider, fair enough. But he's 32, he's been competing at top Olympic level since Sydney, and this is far from being a one off. Think back to his outburst during the Tour. He's old and experienced enough to know better and frankly, the cycling audience deserve better.
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steerpike
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby steerpike » Sat Nov 10, 2012 13:13 pm

adr82 wrote:
steerpike wrote:
Richmond Racer wrote:it's about being human, having human frailties and sometimes making mistakes, often in stressful situations that the vast majority of us will never find outselves in.

Clearly something that some of the people here have mastered.

oh sure, I'm all for sportsmen having frailties - it's what often what makes them appealing. But I'm starting to tire of Wiggins petulance.

Unless you can somehow prove you'd cope better than he has in the same situation (which I doubt), I think you should be prepared to give him a bit of leeway. This time last year he was a virtual unknown to most of the UK public, it's a big change to go from that to being one of the most recognisable people in the country. If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).

I'm pretty quick, but I don't think I'll have the chance to prove or disprove your theory any time soon! You make fair points in the main though I'm inclined to say he's had enough time to start to adjust. It just pains me that this kind of behaviour may give fuel to the motor lobby fire who certainly won't give him any of the slack that he may deserve. I like the guy, I really do, I just feel he needs to stop lashing out. That's it really.

clanton
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby clanton » Sat Nov 10, 2012 13:44 pm

steerpike wrote:It's not sanctimonious nonsense. The OP is deliberately OTT and inflammatory. We have a right to expect better. Being a top sports star carries some resposibility. Wiggins effectively says: "I'll take the plaudits, bit don't expect me to start acting with any dignity or maturity anytime soon because I am who I am." Sorry, that's not good enough. Quite aside from the 'role model for kids' argument, he is now the most high profile cyclist the country has ever had.

So, how frustrating that every rabid petrolhead gets a pic of Wiggins ******* the bird on the front of their redtop? It's hardly helping the pro-cycling agenda.

He doesn't have to be a spokesman, he doesn't even have to be a role model if he doesn't want to - he could just learn to carry himself with a little more dignity and stop lashing out at the inevitable, predictable media interest.


+1. nail - head.

Gavin Cook
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby Gavin Cook » Sat Nov 10, 2012 15:18 pm

Why are you disappointed ? He was giving the finger to a photographer who had probably been hounding him and not to his fans or general public.

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adr82
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby adr82 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 15:23 pm

Drumlin wrote:
adr82 wrote:If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).


If this was a one off, and/or if he was a young and inexperienced rider, fair enough. But he's 32, he's been competing at top Olympic level since Sydney, and this is far from being a one off. Think back to his outburst during the Tour. He's old and experienced enough to know better and frankly, the cycling audience deserve better.

What outburst? The one where he swore a few times after being asked about drug use? That was even less noteworthy than this was! I think it makes people more interesting when they don't go to great lengths to preserve a squeaky clean butter-wouldn't-melt-in-my-mouth public image, because 99 times out of 100 that's not who they actually are and it just makes them seem bland and boring.

I have no idea by what you mean when you say "the cycling audience deserve better". Not everyone who follows cycling chooses to be so deeply offended by relatively innocuous incidents like this, and unless you're paying his wages I fail to see how you "deserve" anything from him!

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steerpike
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby steerpike » Sat Nov 10, 2012 15:32 pm

adr82 wrote:
Drumlin wrote:
adr82 wrote:If he keeps making trouble for himself 5 years down the line then you might have a point, but for now I think you should be willing to overlook the occasional incident like this (which as I've said was trivial anyway).


If this was a one off, and/or if he was a young and inexperienced rider, fair enough. But he's 32, he's been competing at top Olympic level since Sydney, and this is far from being a one off. Think back to his outburst during the Tour. He's old and experienced enough to know better and frankly, the cycling audience deserve better.

What outburst? The one where he swore a few times after being asked about drug use? That was even less noteworthy than this was! I think it makes people more interesting when they don't go to great lengths to preserve a squeaky clean butter-wouldn't-melt-in-my-mouth public image, because 99 times out of 100 that's not who they actually are and it just makes them seem bland and boring.

I have no idea by what you mean when you say "the cycling audience deserve better". Not everyone who follows cycling chooses to be so deeply offended by relatively innocuous incidents like this, and unless you're paying his wages I fail to see how you "deserve" anything from him!


Now your starting to sound like a hoodwinked fan boy. Look, it was wonderful to see Mr Wiggins win the tour - utterly wonderful. It was also a shame to see him respond with his foul mouthed rant at the tour - it doesn't have to be love or hate / black or white. If you think he's 'charismatic' for chucking a few C words around in the public domain then that's a sorry definition of charisma. It is possible to be angry and mantain some dignity.

As for him only being accountable to those who pay his wages? That's plain poppycock. Like football, or any sport for that matter, the fans *are* the sport.

Now I'd be the last person to suggest we hold footballers up as examples of rounded sportsmen, but can you imagine if Steven Gerrard had called football fans ' a bunch of c***s'?? He'd be signing his own death warrant.

Flasher
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby Flasher » Sat Nov 10, 2012 15:57 pm

Gavin Cook wrote:Why are you disappointed ? He was giving the finger to a photographer who had probably been hounding him and not to his fans or general public.


How do the public get their information?

Quite how was the photographer hounding him, Wiggins, multiple Olympic medal and TdF winner gets knocked off his bike, spends the night in hospital, photographer gets sent to his house to get a pic, Wiggins flicks him the finger!

On another occasion Wiggins could well have got out of the car had a few words for the waiting press and posed happily for a pic, 5 mins out of his busy schedule. He's a paid professional sportsman and should behave as such, whether he likes it or not.

okgo
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby okgo » Sat Nov 10, 2012 16:14 pm

The English public, damned if you do, damned if you don't, a country jammed packed with absolute morons.

Allez Wiggo, I'd rather an actual personality rather than another poxy footballer who "did it for the lads today" who "takes one game at a time" bore off.
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steerpike
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby steerpike » Sat Nov 10, 2012 16:19 pm

okgo wrote:The English public, damned if you do, damned if you don't, a country jammed packed with absolute morons.

Allez Wiggo, I'd rather an actual personality rather than another poxy footballer who "did it for the lads today" who "takes one game at a time" bore off.

Oh absolutely - quite the polar opposites of the erudite, urbane and witty Mr Wiggins!!

That said, yes - Allez Wiggo indeed. He's still a hero. Just feel his slack is starting to be used up pretty quick now.

okgo
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby okgo » Sat Nov 10, 2012 16:27 pm

He doesn't give a flying fark about his slack, why should he, he isn't paid to be a PR, he's paid to win races, its painfully obvious that he wants none of the celebrity that goes with being the best in the world at something, just wants to get the job done, can't argue with that. I hate this expectation that celebs owe us something (classic English mentality, a country of people who think the world owes them something and general sense of entitlement, not surprising it extends to things like this), like they HAVE to behave like an angel 24/7, ****, they're people too, and the last thing anyone wants when they've just avoided a career ending incident is some fuckwit from the Sun shoving a camera in his face.
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steerpike
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby steerpike » Sat Nov 10, 2012 16:43 pm

Wake up - he's paid to do significantly more than 'win races' these days. You want top cyclists to be as lauded as other top sportsmen? Start behaving accordingly.

That he doesn't want to be a celebrity is to be applauded.

Our sport has been something of an oddity to this nation until this point. Opinions of cyclists and cycling WILL be formed by his behaviour, whether he likes it or not, whether this is fair or not. Sorry Wiggo, it comes with the territory of being The Best Cyclist in the World.

Continuing to put up a big F-CK YOU sign to the world doesn't help people understand his almighty achievements and it does nothing to help raise our status on the roads of the UK.

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steerpike
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby steerpike » Sat Nov 10, 2012 16:43 pm

anyway, this is boring the $hit out of me now. bye.

jezzpalmer
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby jezzpalmer » Sat Nov 10, 2012 17:53 pm

Perhaps the thread can be renamed, Wiggins -Disappointment to prudes and Daily Mail readers? :D

Fair reaction from him IMO, though ill conceived and should be avoided in future to prevent the needless furore it creates.

I expect it's wiggle's fault though, especially if it turns out he didn't have lights on his bike; the forum trolls and Twitter tw@s will love that. :D

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adr82
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby adr82 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 18:48 pm

steerpike wrote:Now your starting to sound like a hoodwinked fan boy. Look, it was wonderful to see Mr Wiggins win the tour - utterly wonderful. It was also a shame to see him respond with his foul mouthed rant at the tour - it doesn't have to be love or hate / black or white. If you think he's 'charismatic' for chucking a few C words around in the public domain then that's a sorry definition of charisma. It is possible to be angry and mantain some dignity.

Oh boy. Please point out where I said that's the definition of charismatic? Or you could simply stop putting words in my mouth. It might help make him more charismatic than a typical don't-say-anything-without-checking-with-PR celebrity, but it's hardly the only requirement!

Would his strong anti-doping views have got anything like the attention they did if he'd gone off and consulted with the Sky PR team before opening his mouth and spouting something entirely predictable and boring that we've heard hundreds of times before? No, of course they wouldn't.

steerpike wrote:As for him only being accountable to those who pay his wages? That's plain poppycock. Like football, or any sport for that matter, the fans *are* the sport.

Yes yes we all know that cliche. It still doesn't mean you as a fan are entitled to anything from the people who are actually participating. You might think you are, but that's irrelevant.

steerpike wrote:Now I'd be the last person to suggest we hold footballers up as examples of rounded sportsmen, but can you imagine if Steven Gerrard had called football fans ' a bunch of c***s'?? He'd be signing his own death warrant.

That's not even close to what Wiggins did IIRC - the "c*nts" outburst was directed at people who were implying that the only way he'd been able to perform as he had was through doping. I can understand that - in his new book there's a bit where he explains it to a journalist as feeling the same way as someone telling you that your kids aren't your own. I can understand how he feels about it and it certainly wasn't a general "f*ck you" to all cycling fans. Why would he do that?

steerpike wrote:Our sport has been something of an oddity to this nation until this point. Opinions of cyclists and cycling WILL be formed by his behaviour, whether he likes it or not, whether this is fair or not. Sorry Wiggo, it comes with the territory of being The Best Cyclist in the World.

Continuing to put up a big F-CK YOU sign to the world doesn't help people understand his almighty achievements and it does nothing to help raise our status on the roads of the UK.

Similarly to the TdF outburst, do we really have to explain to you that he was giving the finger to the photographers hounding him all over the place, not to the nation in general? If I was in his position I'd happily shoot all of them, it's ridiculous the lengths they'll go to for a photo. Although it says a lot about the general public too that there is even a market for the photos they take.

Flasher
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby Flasher » Sat Nov 10, 2012 19:32 pm

adr82 wrote:Similarly to the TdF outburst, do we really have to explain to you that he was giving the finger to the photographers hounding him all over the place, not to the nation in general? If I was in his position I'd happily shoot all of them, it's ridiculous the lengths they'll go to for a photo. Although it says a lot about the general public too that there is even a market for the photos they take.


How exactly were they "hounding him all over the place", they were outside of his house, it was a genuine news story about one of our greatest athletes.

Olympic/TdF cyclist gets knocked off his bike , maybe the government should have issued a 'D' notice, and waited for your permission to report the news.

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adr82
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby adr82 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 20:03 pm

Flasher wrote:How exactly were they "hounding him all over the place", they were outside of his house, it was a genuine news story about one of our greatest athletes.

The now-infamous photo was taken when he was leaving the hospital after his crash. Explain to me the news value in seeing him do that? And I would most definitely consider having a scrum of photographers camped outside my house all day as being "hounded", as would most sane people.

Flasher wrote:Olympic/TdF cyclist gets knocked off his bike , maybe the government should have issued a 'D' notice, and waited for your permission to report the news.

Yeah... I said nothing like that and you're totally missing the point of what I'm saying anyway. Of course it was worth reporting, I'm not arguing about that. I am daring to suggest that maybe, just maybe we don't really need to see a photo of him leaving hospital in the car! It adds nothing to the story.

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steerpike
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby steerpike » Sat Nov 10, 2012 20:54 pm

jeez adr82 stop being so *prickly* ! we get that you love Mr Wiggins ok?! Yes, we know that his ire was directed at *the photographers* but, as a 32 year old season pro (nay TDF winner) he shoulda/woulda known that his finger would be splashed across the nations breakfast tables - is Joe Public going to be so understanding?

As for 'C*ntgate', I think most people could understand prickliness at being asked about doping at the end of a hard days racing. But he should be a little thicker skinned and worldy wise by now - there is a reason the doping question continually comes up and there is a reason cycling fans feel cynical and betrayed. He needs a little more self-awareness.

confused@BR
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Re: Wiggins - National Disappointment

Postby confused@BR » Sat Nov 10, 2012 20:56 pm

.......to those desperate to be 'disappointed'.
'fool'


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