Intermittent Fasting Diet.

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symo
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby symo » Wed Nov 07, 2012 07:11 am

OK well thanks for the replies everyone. As I said this is something that I am looking at and still undecided upon. Unlike some of you my work precludes me being able to finish on time or being able to schedule training rides in the evenings, so my long rides once a weekend and whatever turbo sessions I can get in at 0600 (usually twice a week).

As for long slow zone 2 rides, I simply do not have that time (smack upside the head to whomever says make time; sure and not doing my job or spending time with my wife is an option too).

I am still doing a lot of reading around on the IF thing and training, also contacted a number of nutritionists via some uni contacts I have for their opinions. Currently I am reading that there is a number of don't do it types of advise, mainly based on the fact that no-one has done this diet for significant periods. What I would suggest is that boxers have been using similar diet/training strategies to get to weight for a number of years. I know that the two sports have minimal crossover in terms of endurance but it is worth bearing in mind.

Like I said; I am still reading around on the subject.
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby jibberjim » Wed Nov 07, 2012 08:36 am

symo wrote:Currently I am reading that there is a number of don't do it types of advise, mainly based on the fact that no-one has done this diet for significant periods.


Fasting regularly has a huge history, most of the worlds major religions do it at various times, and the studies on all of those generally show an improvement in metabolic health (of course most people have metabolic disorders from over-eating so it doesn't really say you'll get better if you're already healthy.) but certainly no harm from doing it.

If you want to lose weight and can't train more, then you'll need to eat less, IF may help with that, but don't expect anything else.
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SBezza
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby SBezza » Wed Nov 07, 2012 08:44 am

How long are you turbo sessions at 6am, if they are only about 1 hour long, I doubt you will see many downsides at all.

You will get different advice from different nutritionists no doubt, and will not really gleen any reliable info I would suspect. If you have plataeued then as jibberjim says you need to eat less food, or perhaps eat differently to what you currently do. IF will probably help there, but it will still mean being strict on the non IF days, as you might well be inclined to eat more, or more of the crap stuff and hence it will make no difference.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby LegendLust » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:24 pm

SBezza wrote:How long are you turbo sessions at 6am, if they are only about 1 hour long, I doubt you will see many downsides at all.

You will get different advice from different nutritionists no doubt, and will not really gleen any reliable info I would suspect. If you have plataeued then as jibberjim says you need to eat less food, or perhaps eat differently to what you currently do. IF will probably help there, but it will still mean being strict on the non IF days, as you might well be inclined to eat more, or more of the crap stuff and hence it will make no difference.


Don't eat less food. Eat less carbs especially on the days you don't train, and eat the majority of the carbs on other days straight after you've trained. Don't cut down on protein and make sure you get plenty of fats in your diet as well.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby Herbsman » Wed Nov 07, 2012 13:43 pm

I accidentally lost 10 pounds recently, after trying to eat a bit more protein regularly, not consciously cutting down on carbs but obviously I was eating less as a result of the increased protein intake.

Could be coincidence though
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby SBezza » Wed Nov 07, 2012 14:04 pm

LegendLust wrote:
SBezza wrote:How long are you turbo sessions at 6am, if they are only about 1 hour long, I doubt you will see many downsides at all.

You will get different advice from different nutritionists no doubt, and will not really gleen any reliable info I would suspect. If you have plataeued then as jibberjim says you need to eat less food, or perhaps eat differently to what you currently do. IF will probably help there, but it will still mean being strict on the non IF days, as you might well be inclined to eat more, or more of the crap stuff and hence it will make no difference.


Don't eat less food. Eat less carbs especially on the days you don't train, and eat the majority of the carbs on other days straight after you've trained. Don't cut down on protein and make sure you get plenty of fats in your diet as well.


Well yes, hence why I also said perhaps eat differently :wink: , but still might needs to actually cut down on calories as well but as I don't know the current consumption and usage it is difficult to say exactly what the OP has to do.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby symo » Fri Nov 09, 2012 13:23 pm

I do track my diet on myfitnesspal (before it was in a little diary).
Calories with commuting and the twice weekly sessions about even, I am cautious of dipping below 1500 cals on a daily basis. I also rarely eat processed foods (the wife is an excellent cook), even down to my sandwich at work being a homemade roll.

Perhaps I will have to remove the calories in a lighter manner on a daily basis.
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby prawny » Fri Nov 09, 2012 16:27 pm

I've tried IF based on the Lean Gains method and it works for me. I'm one of the people who don't deal well with breakfast, if I eat when I wake up I'm hungry all day and I don't deal well with being hungry. Basincally I have breakfast around 12-1pm dinner at normal time and snesible snacks, keeping to a normal (1500kcals net) calorie intake

I found it very good for reducing fat, preserving muscle mass and not making me tired or ravenous. I can only assume that the long(er) periods of fasting make your body better at using the fat up. However that could be tosh and it just works better for me because I can stick to it.

I'm don't race though, so YMMV but I've got no slower on the bike because of it, even though I do almost all of my training during the fasted phase.
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby LegendLust » Fri Nov 09, 2012 16:34 pm

symo wrote:I do track my diet on myfitnesspal (before it was in a little diary).
Calories with commuting and the twice weekly sessions about even, I am cautious of dipping below 1500 cals on a daily basis. I also rarely eat processed foods (the wife is an excellent cook), even down to my sandwich at work being a homemade roll.

Perhaps I will have to remove the calories in a lighter manner on a daily basis.


Have a read of this http://blog.metaboliceffect.com/2012/03 ... c-formula/

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby DavidJB » Sat Nov 10, 2012 06:21 am

All these fancy methods people use...at the end of the day its simple...

if kcals in < kcals out then weight loss.

I loose weight by training, cutting out all crap and portion control. When I eat something I always go for the lightest choices possible. Lets not forget that cutting weight too fast will hurt your cycling.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby prawny » Sat Nov 10, 2012 12:47 pm

The above is true, but it depends how strong your willpower is. Food is my vice, I don't smoke drink or do drugs and I am very hard to choose the lightest option. For me sustainable diets need a gimmick to keep me focused, part of the good thing about IF is that because you're eating for les of the day, you're more full while you are eating.
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby LegendLust » Sat Nov 10, 2012 18:29 pm

DavidJB wrote:All these fancy methods people use...at the end of the day its simple...

if kcals in < kcals out then weight loss.

I loose weight by training, cutting out all crap and portion control. When I eat something I always go for the lightest choices possible. Lets not forget that cutting weight too fast will hurt your cycling.


When you say 'lightest' do you mean lowest in calories or lower fat?

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby SBezza » Fri Nov 16, 2012 09:50 am

DavidJB wrote:All these fancy methods people use...at the end of the day its simple...

if kcals in < kcals out then weight loss.

I loose weight by training, cutting out all crap and portion control. When I eat something I always go for the lightest choices possible. Lets not forget that cutting weight too fast will hurt your cycling.


From my personal experience it isn't as simple as kcals in < kcals out, composition of your diet can have a big impact on fat loss. I have tracked calorie intake and calorie output (with a powermeter), and it took a change in what type of food I ate (with roughly the same daily calorie intake) before I saw progressive change on the scales and it was good to see it was fat loss rather than just weightloss.

I don't choose the lightest options, I choose the healthiest options (from a body's point of view not a text book, or dietican/doctors point of view), and eat virtually no processed packaged foods.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby Trev The Rev » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:21 am

SBezza wrote:
DavidJB wrote:All these fancy methods people use...at the end of the day its simple...

if kcals in < kcals out then weight loss.

I loose weight by training, cutting out all crap and portion control. When I eat something I always go for the lightest choices possible. Lets not forget that cutting weight too fast will hurt your cycling.


From my personal experience it isn't as simple as kcals in < kcals out, composition of your diet can have a big impact on fat loss. I have tracked calorie intake and calorie output (with a powermeter), and it took a change in what type of food I ate (with roughly the same daily calorie intake) before I saw progressive change on the scales and it was good to see it was fat loss rather than just weightloss.

I don't choose the lightest options, I choose the healthiest options (from a body's point of view not a text book, or dietican/doctors point of view), and eat virtually no processed packaged foods.


There is a lot of research which backs up what Bezza is saying. Off the top of my head without referring to anything and from memory the body converts almost 100% of calories from carbs but only 70% of the calories from protein. The body finds it easier to turn surplus carbohydrate calories into fat than it does protein. Carbs also tend to make you feel hungry soon after but protein & fat satisfies you for longer. It is also important to get your carbs from the right foods. Bread, pasta, rice not being as good as vegetables etc etc.

There are very powerful groups with vested interests which want to perpetuate the calories in calories out myth. They want you and your children to consume sugar, and other highly processed carbohydrates because this is where they make their profit.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby mattshrops » Fri Nov 16, 2012 20:02 pm

What do you think the secret international cartel of sugar daddies is watching bikeradar and will be putting pressure on to silence trev the truth? :lol:
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby dhbemis@yahoo.com » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:13 am

I liked one of Trev's original points that we are equipped from an evolutionary standpoint to be able to handle occasional fasting.
Did anyone see Tyler Hamilton's book where he described one of his methods for weight loss? He would do a long training ride, have a big glass of water and sleeping tablets when he got home, lay down for a nap w/out eating anything and if he was lucky he'd sleep through until morning!

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby ChrisAOnABike » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:42 am

Trev The Rev wrote:the calories in calories out myth.

It's only a myth in the sense that it slightly oversimplifies.

The calories required to process the food consumed needs to be included in the calories out. That's different for different types of food.

It doesn't change the fact that if you consume more than you burn, you'll put on the excess as fat. If you consume less than you burn, it's more complicated, since there are several different things that the body contains that can be used as fuel. But those things will be consumed nevertheless.
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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:54 am

dhbemis@yahoo.com wrote:I liked one of Trev's original points that we are equipped from an evolutionary standpoint to be able to handle occasional fasting.
Did anyone see Tyler Hamilton's book where he described one of his methods for weight loss? He would do a long training ride, have a big glass of water and sleeping tablets when he got home, lay down for a nap w/out eating anything and if he was lucky he'd sleep through until morning!


I did an experiment recently.

Fasted for 24 hours.

1. Did not feel hungry - which was a surprise.
2. Found no drop in performance even after 22 hours without food. In fact felt remarkably strong.
3. Did not overcompensate by eating more than usual the following day, in fact felt full sooner and ate less.
5. Lost 1.8 kilos. (mostly water I assume)
6. Still lost 1.3 kilos after the normal eating day.
7. Performance still normal the following days.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:00 pm

ChrisAOnABike wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:the calories in calories out myth.

It's only a myth in the sense that it slightly oversimplifies.

The calories required to process the food consumed needs to be included in the calories out. That's different for different types of food.

It doesn't change the fact that if you consume more than you burn, you'll put on the excess as fat. If you consume less than you burn, it's more complicated, since there are several different things that the body contains that can be used as fuel. But those things will be consumed nevertheless.


Yes agreed but online calorie counters and apps and diet books (even reputable ones) do not take this into account. This is also not taken into account when calculating calories required to maintain weight and calories needed to cover training.

I have also seen a test where people were deliberately over fed, all put on some weight, but some put on almost no fat but did put on muscle. Some put on only fat. Some put on much more weight than others. All seemed to revert back to their normal weight when they went back to their normal diets. None of them were fat or obese to start with and all were young.

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Re: Intermittent Fasting Diet.

Postby ChrisAOnABike » Wed Jan 09, 2013 14:38 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:I have also seen a test where people were deliberately over fed, all put on some weight, but some put on almost no fat but did put on muscle. Some put on only fat. Some put on much more weight than others. All seemed to revert back to their normal weight when they went back to their normal diets. None of them were fat or obese to start with and all were young.

Putting on muscle but not fat is surprising.

Did the test reliably exclude:

- secret weight training?
- pre-existing conditions involving muscle wastage?
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