4-pot brakes?

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Ghostt
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4-pot brakes?

Postby Ghostt » Wed Nov 14, 2012 17:46 pm

Hello all

Looking at getting some new brakes after killing my RX's. So far looking at:

Hope M2/M4 Evo
Shimano XT/ZEE
Avid XO Trail/Code R

Riding a lot more downhill and planning to return to the Alps next summer, so thinking the increased stopping power and heat resistance of the four-pots would be better, for a marginal weight gain but as I'm not a weight weenie not actually bothered!

So, anyone have any experience of the above brakes, or any others worth looking at? Am I barking up the right tree with 4 pots, or should I stick to plain old 2 pots?
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go - T.S. Eliot

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nicklouse
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby nicklouse » Wed Nov 14, 2012 17:49 pm

the original Codes were just stupid.

Hope. over priced under powered.

still more than happy with my The Ones.
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dusk
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby dusk » Wed Nov 14, 2012 20:33 pm

I've got XT and they're great but if you feel you'll need a little more power then get ZEE, Shimano brakes are pretty unbeatable right now when it comes to reliabilty, price and power
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The Rookie
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby The Rookie » Wed Nov 14, 2012 21:16 pm

XT aren't 4 pots surely?
ZEE are getting a good rep for the performance of Saint at lower cost.

RIKO
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby RIKO » Wed Nov 14, 2012 23:08 pm

Run the Hope Tech V2's really good for power and very controllable plus the legendary Hope support and spares availability. The new V4's will be better again I suspect.

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cooldad
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby cooldad » Thu Nov 15, 2012 09:29 am

RIKO wrote:Run the Hope Tech V2's really good for power and very controllable plus the legendary Hope support and spares availability. The new V4's will be better again I suspect.

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RIKO
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby RIKO » Thu Nov 15, 2012 18:25 pm

Couldn't disagree more all the Hope brakes I've owned have been rock solid reliable.

Northwind
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby Northwind » Thu Nov 15, 2012 21:45 pm

Then how do you know about the customer support and spares availability? ;)

TBH, the reason companies make 4-pot pushiron brakes is the same reason motorbikes sometimes come with 6-pot brakes... It's so they can put "2 more pots than everyone else!" in the marketing. Bugger all benefit to it, and some disadvantages.
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The Rookie
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby The Rookie » Fri Nov 16, 2012 08:17 am

There is a big benefit in terms of consistency of contact pressure across the pad, especially when done properly like Shimano (Saint and Zee) do with a smaller diameter leading pot (which counteracts the leading edge effect all brake pads/shoes exhibit), Saint and XT use basically the same lever, yet compare the brake torque results (on here) and they are a fair way apart, though Saint do weigh about 60g more per caliper. So I call your bugger all benefit as BS I'm afraid.
Dyno plots
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... e-10-37466
Saint is The top performer (dashed light blue), XT mid table.

EH_Rob
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby EH_Rob » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:44 am

The Beginner wrote:when done properly


That's the key statement.

I have some Hope M4s - crap compared to new XTs.

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mrmonkfinger
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby mrmonkfinger » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:08 pm

What's not been done properly about hope m4s?


I have original code callipers - quite like them personally (although a pig to service).

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The Rookie
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby The Rookie » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:45 pm

I don't know, but look at the dyno plot and how pants they are......at the top end they are below the Tektro Auriga's for goodness sakes!

Northwind
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby Northwind » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:53 pm

The Beginner wrote:Saint and XT use basically the same lever, yet compare the brake torque results (on here) and they are a fair way apart, though Saint do weigh about 60g more per caliper. So I call your bugger all benefit as BS I'm afraid.


Er, except that there's other ways to generate that difference other than adding piston- changing the surface area of the piston/pistons changes the character of the power delivery in much the same way regardless of the number of pistons. See- Formula, Avid, Brembo, Tokico.

You sound like you've swallowed a press release ;)
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The Rookie
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby The Rookie » Fri Nov 16, 2012 13:25 pm

Not at all, if you change piston AREA the lever travel (same lever) will go up or down, so it can't have changed by much as no review notices this, the pads are the self same as current XT, so clearly the 4 pistons done properly offer a benefit...... sounds like you swallowed too many cynical pills.

Northwind
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby Northwind » Fri Nov 16, 2012 13:31 pm

The Beginner wrote:Not at all, if you change piston AREA the lever travel (same lever) will go up or down, so it can't have changed by much as no review notices this


Ah, so you've not actually used them then?
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EH_Rob
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby EH_Rob » Fri Nov 16, 2012 13:54 pm

mrmonkfinger wrote:What's not been done properly about hope m4s?


I have original code callipers - quite like them personally (although a pig to service).


I don't know either, I just know the ones I have aren't very good.

Ghostt
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby Ghostt » Fri Nov 16, 2012 14:23 pm

Interesting, thanks for the replies.

The Beginner wrote:Dyno plots
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... e-10-37466
Saint is The top performer (dashed light blue), XT mid table.

Nice link, was posted in 2010 though so different models to what's out now - e.g. are the Hope brakes the EVO models? Quite tempted by the Hopes, out of the guys I was riding in the Alps with the only brakes that didn't have problems were a set of V2s.

Having said all of that, I'd be a fool to not go Shimano, seem to be outperforming everything and a doddle to service. Still not sure whether or not to go 4 pots, probably will go for whatever's cheaper and run big rotors when I need to!
Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go - T.S. Eliot

RockmonkeySC
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby RockmonkeySC » Fri Nov 16, 2012 15:54 pm

Not 4 pots but I'm finding Avid X0 very good for downhill. More reliable than standard Elixirs and easier to bleed. Even on long, fast DH tracks like Cwmcarn heat doesn't seem to be a problem.
Personally I don't like the Saint brakes, they are either on or off with not a lot of feel. I expect Zee are similar.

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The Rookie
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby The Rookie » Fri Nov 16, 2012 16:19 pm

Northwind wrote:
The Beginner wrote:Not at all, if you change piston AREA the lever travel (same lever) will go up or down, so it can't have changed by much as no review notices this


Ah, so you've not actually used them then?

No......are you saying the lever travel is noticeably longer then?

Northwind
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Re: 4-pot brakes?

Postby Northwind » Fri Nov 16, 2012 18:19 pm

The Beginner wrote:No......are you saying the lever travel is noticeably longer then?


Yep.
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