All about tubular tyres *new questions*

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PeteMadoc
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All about tubular tyres *new questions*

Postby PeteMadoc » Thu Nov 15, 2012 15:39 pm

There seems to be all kinds of myths and BS surrounding tubular tyres. Without over complicating things what is the best way to fit and look after tubular tyres?

Should you remove glue from rims before fitting new tyres and if so what do you use?

Which glues are generally considered to be good/the best

I've heard of using liquid latex to protect tan sidewalls... is this necessary for dry rides

I assume the ageing thing is bollox

Can I mount a 24mm tyre on a 20mm rim and if so is it a good idea

I plan on avoiding sealant and repairing my own punctures, however as an emergency what sealant is generally considered to be the best

Any other tubular pearls of wisdom welcome
Last edited by PeteMadoc on Mon Jan 21, 2013 21:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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John.T
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby John.T » Thu Nov 15, 2012 17:31 pm

Best advice is if you are not using them for racing then don't use them. Clinchers are far less trouble.
I stick mine on with tape for TT use never had any trouble. Not used glue for 50 years.
No need to treat side-walls.
You are right about ageing. Not needed nowadays.
You can fit almost any tub to any rim (some of the new wide Zips, etc may vary).
Sealant seems to work for some but not others. I just carry a spare tub on long races where I may be a long way from help. On short ones I just risk it.

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Monty Dog
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby Monty Dog » Thu Nov 15, 2012 20:23 pm

I only use tubs for racing - you'd have to be a die-hard traditionalist to stick to them for regular use.
No need to remove old glue - as long as the glue is clean and free from lumps, simply apply a new coating.
Glue choice depends on rim, but I prefer Vittoria Mastik as tape doesn't work for CX tubs IME.
Treating sidewalls is only needed for the likes of Dugast tubs for Cyclocross - not required for road tyres IME.
Check how well the shape of the tub matches the rim profile - 'Belgian' method is best used where the tyre and rim don't match as it was developed for fat CX tubs on skinny road rims.
Sealant isn't 100% reliable, but far easier than changing a tub by the roadside in the rain,
Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..

pinarellokid
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Re: All about tubular tyres.

Postby pinarellokid » Thu Nov 15, 2012 21:38 pm

i bought a set of clincher carbon wheels which had some tubular clincher tyres fitted.. they seem to be a mix of both ..

they are a tub tyre which has fins which fit into the clincher groove on the wheel so never comes off unless you deflate and then they are just like a normal tyre.

i changed for ease of use. but i somehow managed to end up with 1 tyre left over.. certainly an option if you fancy the glueless option
Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

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thecycleclinic
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby thecycleclinic » Thu Nov 15, 2012 21:58 pm

A tub habbit is expensive. I only use them for TT's. I have riden this bike (an old Alan not a TT bike) on club runs and dealing witrh pucnture is just a quick as do a puncture on a clincher if you have a pre stretched and pre glued tub. It was an expensive puncture though.

I also use tape as glue is a lot of faff. The spare tub is always preglued and I just put that on the old tape. I have found it gets me home quite well.

Brake cleaner is quite a good solvent for removing old glue if you want a clean rim but alot of elbow grease is required.

Also good clinchers offer just the same rolling resistance as good tubs. Tubs will be a bit more aerodynamic and may give better ride comfort. I use them on the Alan as my period wheels are sprints so I have no choice.
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racingcondor
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby racingcondor » Fri Nov 16, 2012 13:17 pm

If you plan on repairing your own punctures then I'd avoid Conti tubs.

Essentially tubs are wrapped around the tube and sown together then base tape glued on. Unless I'm misremembering it Conti's tubs are made in a slightly different way which makes getting past the glued layers much harder.

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PeteMadoc
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby PeteMadoc » Fri Nov 16, 2012 13:22 pm

racingcondor wrote:If you plan on repairing your own punctures then I'd avoid Conti tubs.

Essentially tubs are wrapped around the tube and sown together then base tape glued on. Unless I'm misremembering it Conti's tubs are made in a slightly different way which makes getting past the glued layers much harder.


Gonna stick to Veloflex or :D Vittoria

mpd62
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby mpd62 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 14:37 pm

you can try the weight weenies http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... =3&t=72309 if you have a few hours spare!!

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Monty Dog
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby Monty Dog » Fri Nov 16, 2012 17:49 pm

I should add I've had no problems using tub tape for road tyres - Tufo and Jantex, where the pressure of the tyre keeps it firmly on the rim. For CX, the bigger tyres, lower pressure and bigger side loads means tape doesn't work IME.
Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..

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John.T
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby John.T » Fri Nov 16, 2012 19:24 pm

Monty Dog wrote:I should add I've had no problems using tub tape for road tyres - Tufo and Jantex, where the pressure of the tyre keeps it firmly on the rim. For CX, the bigger tyres, lower pressure and bigger side loads means tape doesn't work IME.

At least the bigger tyres do stick at the edges. It is when the tyre is a bit narrow on the rim you have problems with rolling. My 22mm Contis stick fine with tape.

mamba80
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby mamba80 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:47 pm

PeteMadoc wrote:
racingcondor wrote:If you plan on repairing your own punctures then I'd avoid Conti tubs.

Essentially tubs are wrapped around the tube and sown together then base tape glued on. Unless I'm misremembering it Conti's tubs are made in a slightly different way which makes getting past the glued layers much harder.


Gonna stick to Veloflex or :D Vittoria


The Conti GP4000 Tub is a sealed unit and cannot be repaired but other Conti s like the Competition or Sprinter are easily repaired.
Vitt and Velo are latex tubes and their tubs, whilst they give a good ride etc are perhaps more fragile than conti, with Vitt CX SX the base tape is overlaid with latex type solution making removal a pia.

racingcondor
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby racingcondor » Mon Nov 19, 2012 13:03 pm

Thanks Mamba, good to know (especially as it means I may be able to use sprinters on the track bike next year).

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PeteMadoc
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby PeteMadoc » Mon Nov 19, 2012 16:00 pm

mpd62 wrote:you can try the weight weenies http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum ... =3&t=72309 if you have a few hours spare!!


Thanks for the comments peeps

I had a look at the weight weenies thread the other day. It's seems they like to over complicate what is a relatively simple topic. How on earth they've reached 160+ pages :shock: That's more than the Lance Armstrong thread over in pro race!!

After muchos research I've settled on the following items

white spirit to remove old glue, Veloflex criterium 22mm tyres, vittoria mastik one glue, old pre-glued tub as a backup, tuffo extreme sealant as a last resort which requires valve extenders where you pull out the core and re-install it at the end of the extender

Job done, just a shame I won't be testing them out until the spring :cry:

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PeteMadoc
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Re: All about tubular tyres

Postby PeteMadoc » Mon Jan 21, 2013 21:00 pm

Thread resurrection

What tub do people recommend as a spare. I'm thinking thin like 19mm, light and small and cheap.

Just thinking ahead, I'm going to try and repair my own tubs and I've bought a tub specific needle and thread for a massive £1.50. I've read that latex carpet glue and a piece of an old latex inner tube are the best thing to use, have I got that right. Lastly it doesn't seem very obvious how you would remove the base tape, how does that work then?

Diamant49
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Re: All about tubular tyres *new questions*

Postby Diamant49 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 09:27 am

These

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/TBTUELJET/tufo_elite_jet__160g_tubular_tyre

Squeeze all the air out, roll up really and hold with an elastic band or velcro strap. Not much bigger than a normal inner tube then - small enough to carry two when I am on a longer ride.

Have to admit I have never had to use one - in many years of using tubs only ever punctured once on the road (hexed that now!!!) - last puncture was using the turbo, when the heat softened the tyre and a tiny piece of glass worked its way through.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: All about tubular tyres *new questions*

Postby thegreatdivide » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:08 am

I removed a tub from a carbon rim the other week, not out of necessity but noob fear. I thought I hadn’t glued it very well (yip, noob) but I had. Anyway it needed re mounted so I decided to take the quite substantial amount of glue off the rim. Tried to take it off with pure acetone (purchased from eBay) as advised by Zipp, no use. Then I used Park Chain Brite which is a citrus degreaser and good for all surfaces, not bad but still not very effective against the big bits. Zipp also recommend Goofoff but that’s not available in the UK – however you get this citrus thing called Sticky Stuff Remover from hobby shops, B&Q etc and prior to Chain Brite I used it to get rid of stubborn oil stains on white bits of bike as well as running a chain through it. Anyway, stick some on a rag and apply to the glue. Go and make a cup of tea or post some drivel on here – after 10 mins you can start attacking the glue and it comes off very easily – like big chunks of snot. Once you’ve got the majority of it off the rim you can start to use the acetone. After an afternoon in front of Stage 15 of this year’s Tour I had my rim back to its factory fresh state and ready for re gluing.

So there’s a noob’s guide to getting glue off a carbon rim.
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Carbonator
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Re: All about tubular tyres *new questions*

Postby Carbonator » Tue Jan 22, 2013 15:21 pm

Hi all, new to forum (other than lurking a bit when searches brought me here) and tubs.

Just fitted some Tufo S3's to carbon rims using Tufo tape.
All went very well* and cannot wait to see if the aero rims/tubs improve my time trial times.

*Only slight thing was that the first wheel I put tape on ended up having a couple of air bubbles and not as good as the perfect job I made using a different technic on the second wheel.

Can you peel a tub off and use it again, or does it bugger the tub?
Also, how easy is it to get Tufo tape off the rim?
No plans to do it just yet but its bugging me lol.

Rich.H
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Re: All about tubular tyres *new questions*

Postby Rich.H » Tue Jan 22, 2013 20:13 pm

thegreatdivide,

What brand of glue did you remove?

After 3 tyres my rear tub rim, I think it's time to remove the old glue (Mastick One)

Cheers

Rich

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thegreatdivide
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Re: All about tubular tyres *new questions*

Postby thegreatdivide » Wed Jan 23, 2013 09:45 am

Same as you, Vittoria Mastick One.
"Crevaison sur les paves..."

pliptrot
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Re: All about tubular tyres *new questions*

Postby pliptrot » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:23 am

Any notes/experience on incompatibilities between particular tub brands and glueing products? Tufo pressure activating tape looks good but I have Conti (Competition) and Vittoria (Corsa CX) tubs.


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