Ankle pushing out - why?

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brettjmcc
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Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby brettjmcc » Wed Nov 21, 2012 09:38 am

So here goes.

Last year I ended up with my 3rd pair of shoes in 3 years (admittedly the 1st change was purely vanity). I swapped out froma pair of S-Works because of pinching the front of my feet (though in hindsight, I could have probably gone up a size).

with the pinching and doing a lot of internet based reading, I decided I needed a wider shoe (this was based on reading the stuff on the Lake site and then measuring my feet by their method). Based on the dimensions having drawn round my foot, I decided that I would need a pair of Sidi Megas.

Over the course of last year I have constantly tweaked the cleats and even got some cleat wedges trying to get it feeling right. I also have Specialized Blue insoles.

My left foot feels OK, but my right seems to kick the ankle outand make it awkward, I have tried angling more both ways using the cleat shims. Also, my foot feels like it can 'roll' in the shoe. My first night back at club turbo, our coach commented on my foot position last night not looking right.

Can anyone suggest anything to do, or do I need to go somewhere to try shoes on to get a better fit - and before people say 'bike fit' - yes, I had that done last year by a Retul fitter from the University of Essex HPU.

I am also running Speedplay as pedals, and have the cleats pushed out as far as I can on both sides.

Thanks
Brett
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tom3
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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby tom3 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:07 am

Completely random I know, but that sounds more like an issue with your ankle, than the bike.

Maybe some sort of over pronation of the ankle. As a youngster did you twist your ankles and damage your ligaments alot playing sports?

Might be worth buying yourself a wobble board for £10 and strenghten the ankle joint and specifically retrain your ligaments. One footed excercises on the wobble board can really help.

I have had a similar issue in the past (not when cycling). It was actually a large muscle knot on the outside of my calf that caused the issue. A couple of sessions of a lady sticking needles in to the knot released it and stopped the over pronation.

im probably completely wrong but there you go.

Trev The Rev
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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:24 am

brettjmcc wrote:So here goes.

Last year I ended up with my 3rd pair of shoes in 3 years (admittedly the 1st change was purely vanity). I swapped out froma pair of S-Works because of pinching the front of my feet (though in hindsight, I could have probably gone up a size).

with the pinching and doing a lot of internet based reading, I decided I needed a wider shoe (this was based on reading the stuff on the Lake site and then measuring my feet by their method). Based on the dimensions having drawn round my foot, I decided that I would need a pair of Sidi Megas.

Over the course of last year I have constantly tweaked the cleats and even got some cleat wedges trying to get it feeling right. I also have Specialized Blue insoles.

My left foot feels OK, but my right seems to kick the ankle outand make it awkward, I have tried angling more both ways using the cleat shims. Also, my foot feels like it can 'roll' in the shoe. My first night back at club turbo, our coach commented on my foot position last night not looking right.

Can anyone suggest anything to do, or do I need to go somewhere to try shoes on to get a better fit - and before people say 'bike fit' - yes, I had that done last year by a Retul fitter from the University of Essex HPU.

I am also running Speedplay as pedals, and have the cleats pushed out as far as I can on both sides.

Thanks
Brett


Please do not take this the wrong way, but do you have the same problem on flat pedals when using a comfortable shoe? I have not used Speedplay, is there much float? It might be that for some reason your foot needs to move more through the pedal stroke.

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brettjmcc
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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby brettjmcc » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:30 am

@ Trev One of the reason I moved to Speedplay was the ability to have free float, as I used to use Shimano Ultegras. whilst they had float they also had a centtering action, which I used to feel in my knee. The knee now feels fine, but my ankle kicks out and my foot doesn't feel right.

@tom Yes, about 9 years I sprained my ankle badly; in fact the doctor said it would have been better if I had broken it. I didn't get full movement back for nearly a year.

I should probably add, that thinking back, my right foot (now the problem foot) used to feel OK in the S-Works, it was the left that had the pinching issue...
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gavbarron
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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby gavbarron » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:41 am

I always used shimano pedals and cleats and then for some reason gave Look Keo a try and had this issue with my right ankle swinging out. Like you I tried various cleat and foot positions to no avail and so changed back to my shimano pedals to see if it made a difference and strangely I was back to normal. I have no technical explanation for this and it may well be that I made an adjustment to my foot/cleat position during the changes that caused the differences but if you have access to a different pedal it can't hurt to try.

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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby Mdins » Wed Nov 21, 2012 13:58 pm

Brett, I'm having exactly the same problem at the moment with my left foot, it just does not feel right. I've just switched to spd-sl 105s, new shoes, cleats so i'm hoping i can just tinker with positioning etc. I'm pinning all my hopes on moving the cleat back more towards the rear of my foot, or at least more squarely on the balls of my feet. I'm eagerly awaiting the breakthrough comment to this thread. I feel your annoyance, a really irritating feeling on the bike.

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brettjmcc
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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby brettjmcc » Wed Nov 21, 2012 14:02 pm

@tom another thought I had whilst walking between buildings at work just now. I naturally toe out when walking, so its even strager that my ankle is out and creating toe in.
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jouxplan
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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby jouxplan » Wed Nov 21, 2012 15:07 pm

I had very similar problems over a six year period - I might as well have been cycling one-legged. My right ankle was never happy on the pedal and it seemed to wobble and squirm at the bottom of the stroke. I was on shimano dura ace at the time and various shoes. My feet both pronote horribly, and this is a key aspect of what was wrong. To summarise what finally 'fixed me' -
1. I got the Specialized BG shoes - these seemed to offer a lot of sensible foot support
2. I got a set of eSoles and substantially increased the level of arch support.
3. I changed to the Speedplay system, to facilitate much more dialing-in of float, fore-aft etc.
4. I lowered my saddle, following a bike fit. I had been riding too high for years - due to other bike fits.
5. I purchased the extra speedplay plate that goes onto the bottom of the shoe and allows you to move the cleat even further back than normal. Getting your pedal spindle BEHIND the ball of the foot makes an incredible difference to ankle and overall foot stability.
6. I carefully set the ankle in -out screw on the right foot such that it stopped the twist, but without causing my foot to fight it overly much (a balancing act). Lowering the saddle was key to stopping the twist forces.

I am stronger and more fluid on the bike today than I have been in many, many years. Many of us sit too high on the bike, and whilst for those who have 'normal feet / ankles' this probably won't cause an issue, for those of us with problem feet and ankles, it can prove disastrous.

I note you say you don't want to hear about bike fitting to solve your problem, but I would strongly suggest that you visit a bike fitter who really cares about the shoe - pedal interface. The fitter I found spent an AGE studying my particular feet and how they needed to be located on the pedal. That was a key moment for me. Most fitters don't spend enough time on this. I know. I have seen 6 fitters over the years, including flying out to Colarado in desperation to see one, a few years ago. They all sat me too high on the bike. They all 'guessed' at how to set up my cleat. I will name no names.

You appear to be in Essex. The fitter I would recommend is in the south east. PM me if you want his details.

Good luck :)
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trek_dan
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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby trek_dan » Wed Nov 21, 2012 16:03 pm

Do the Speedplay pedals have longer axles than standard? Thought about pedal extenders to push your feet further away?

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sungod
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Re: Ankle pushing out - why?

Postby sungod » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:10 am

i had some problems with repeat knee strain, this was after a bikefit, the problem was infrequent, but annoying as it completely derailled training while i backed off to recover

eventually tried a second fitter to look at what was going on, improved a bit but still wasn't right, he said it was complex and advised seeing a physiotherapist who understood cycling

the physio identified the root cause (some slight back/hip/leg asymmetry) and then went about fixing it, with a combination of footbeds, shims and wedges, plus some specific off-bike exercises, took a couple of visits but well worth it
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