Electronic Suspension System

Got a general MTB question that doesn't fit anywhere else? Here's the place.
jairaj
Posts: 2892
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 17:26 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby jairaj » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:49 pm

Well done mate big high five to you. I briefly thought about doing something similar my self when I heard about the Rockshox system. But I realised I didn't personally need or want such a thing so wasn't sure I'd have the motivation to make it happen. The manufacturers clearly think there is a market for it hence developing these systems.

Best of luck to you.

User avatar
mrmonkfinger
Posts: 1431
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 13:44 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby mrmonkfinger » Thu Nov 22, 2012 13:50 pm

somebody give this man a job, quick

RockmonkeySC
Posts: 12907
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 17:40 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby RockmonkeySC » Thu Nov 22, 2012 15:21 pm

Some nice ideas & if it works and was developed to a production model I would buy this over the Fox CTD system as it allows better control over the suspension set up where the fox system seriously limits your set up.

User avatar
cooldad
Posts: 28171
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 22:01 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby cooldad » Thu Nov 22, 2012 15:23 pm

Slightly different animals I think.
I don't do smileys.

There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

London Calling on Facebook

Parktools

User avatar
bluechair84
Posts: 4046
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 15:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby bluechair84 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 16:23 pm

vkolotov wrote:
bluechair84 wrote:
Pedaling while standing over the handle bar ------------------------- All suspensions are locked

There's many places where I'm climbing hard and actually need the suspension. So in this intsance, I'd say that the current analogue systems are more intelligent.


Well, the logic is more complex than you think. The suspensions would not be locked if there were bumps on the trail.
That is why, the system employs accelerometer sensors in order to determine bumps on the road.


I'm sure with a lot of time and effort you could use the sensors to determine very specific scenarios and have the system respond appropriatly, I think we're all impressed that this is what you're aiming to achieve. One of the reasons why I wouldn't be keen is that I like to be able to fix evrything myself. Such as system is one more thing to look after and probably requires tools and skills I don't have to keep sweet. Bikes are becoming more and more complex, I think there will always be a place for 'dumb' systems so long as they are efficient. But either way, I think it's commendable what you're achieving.
Thinking about it... the electronics in my house and my car are far more reliable than the analogue things... maybe I really am a ludite :shock:

vkolotov
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 19:21 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby vkolotov » Thu Nov 22, 2012 17:20 pm

bluechair84 wrote:
vkolotov wrote:
bluechair84 wrote:
Pedaling while standing over the handle bar ------------------------- All suspensions are locked

There's many places where I'm climbing hard and actually need the suspension. So in this intsance, I'd say that the current analogue systems are more intelligent.


Well, the logic is more complex than you think. The suspensions would not be locked if there were bumps on the trail.
That is why, the system employs accelerometer sensors in order to determine bumps on the road.


I'm sure with a lot of time and effort you could use the sensors to determine very specific scenarios and have the system respond appropriatly, I think we're all impressed that this is what you're aiming to achieve. One of the reasons why I wouldn't be keen is that I like to be able to fix evrything myself. Such as system is one more thing to look after and probably requires tools and skills I don't have to keep sweet. Bikes are becoming more and more complex, I think there will always be a place for 'dumb' systems so long as they are efficient. But either way, I think it's commendable what you're achieving.
Thinking about it... the electronics in my house and my car are far more reliable than the analogue things... maybe I really am a ludite :shock:


I see your point. Everything in our world inevitably develops/evolves. And it is so cool, when you are riding your bike and your bike lives his life by switching suspensions automatically without your participation, thereby helps you to make your ride more efficient.

User avatar
bluechair84
Posts: 4046
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 15:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby bluechair84 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 17:34 pm

On the one hand, you have people like yourselves that want to see technology used to its greatest capacity, 'it can be done, therefore why not try?'. And on the other you have people who shun such advances as it is diluting the experience of riding. The idea that your bike is a 'co-pilot' (by your analogy) that assists your riding is really against what I want out of the experience as I like to feel that I made it up and down 'that' without the aids of someone in a lab somewhere turning my energies in logic sequences and programming responses from a system. It can be put on a bi-polar scale:
Full technical advantage <-----> no technical advantage.
But of course, I wouldn't want to omit my damper cartridges, or my indexed mechs, or selectable gear ratios, or butted tubes, or alloys... I'm sure we're all hypocrites in this sense, we don't want technology invading the victories that we see as ours, even though it already has. But a computer system I see as one step too far. And I mean no disrespect to what you've produced - it really is fantastic and there will be people out there who want the advantage, but I'm not ready for it yet.

vkolotov
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 19:21 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby vkolotov » Mon Nov 26, 2012 17:37 pm

Hey, hi all! I'm on bikerumor! =) On the main page.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/11/26/hac ... e-buttons/

User avatar
bluechair84
Posts: 4046
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 15:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby bluechair84 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 17:48 pm

Although yours maybe cheap, it is also available on a Ghost; the E:i has fork sensors, bottom bracket sensors, computer, display and automatic shock adjustment (I don't think it has auto fork adjust). I just came across an advert for it in Dirt and thought of this thread.

Image

vkolotov
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 19:21 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby vkolotov » Mon Nov 26, 2012 18:29 pm

bluechair84 wrote:Although yours maybe cheap, it is also available on a Ghost; the E:i has fork sensors, bottom bracket sensors, computer, display and automatic shock adjustment (I don't think it has auto fork adjust). I just came across an advert for it in Dirt and thought of this thread.

Image


Actually, I mentioned this in the my article :)

User avatar
bluechair84
Posts: 4046
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 15:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby bluechair84 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 19:37 pm

vkolotov wrote:
bluechair84 wrote:Although yours maybe cheap, it is also available on a Ghost; the E:i has fork sensors, bottom bracket sensors, computer, display and automatic shock adjustment (I don't think it has auto fork adjust). I just came across an advert for it in Dirt and thought of this thread.


Actually, I mentioned this in the my article :)

Ah finger on the pulse! I missed that when I read you OP.

pe60t0
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 13:13 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby pe60t0 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:11 am

Firstly, let me congratulate @vkolotov for the (according to me) astonishing achievement. Keep up the good work. I am not sure if microcontrollers are a hobby only, but if so, then that is even better thing you have done here ! I particularly enjoy the part where you though of connecting bikes with computers. I have thought about it myself too and its great to see that people have done it.

I want to ask you a couple of questions: (if it is not a marketing secret of course)

-> What time did it take you to build the whole thing(without the Android app, just the design, implementation of the electronics system and software ) ?
-> Did you build this on your own only, or you had some help too ?
-> What kind of testing did you do to make sure it is working correctly ? Or you just did multiple rides I guess ?
-> I am mostly interested in how did you set up the values for when the system does what it should do (angles of inclination, bump power, etc) ?

I think this project can be extended in many ways, and probably you are thinking about it too. For example, changing the travel of the suspension based on the inclination ?

The topic about technology and should we get dependent on it is quite interesting as well. @bluechair84 I can see what you mean that you want to ride "on your own" and I definitely agree with this, as that's what is nice about mountain biking - you, the nature and the bike as a whole. That's the idea of the sport - escape the busy lifestyle (that most of us live) and go into the nature, be part of it, experience it at its best. But also, as you said, this sport and mountaineering as a whole is very much dependent on technology - waterproof, breathable clothes, high quality rubber soles, travel-adjustable forks, advanced shifting mechanisms, bike computers to track speed and distance... Regardless of whether we want it or not, it is there and we can't escape from it. Eventually I think that this is a good thing. The counter-argument here though is that maybe that's the point...the lower technological advancement you have, the more you are to adapt to the changing environment and thus become better equipped for it(mostly mentally but pure physically too). Still however, I doubt it. Couple of decades ago people were mountaineering too, but do you think they were more efficient than us now with all the nice stuff we have now ? I hardly believe that without proper equipment(clothes,shoes, etc) mountaineering can be experienced in a nice way. For example, couple of years ago I joined a group of cyclists that went to the top of the highest peak in Bulgaria (Musala peak in the Rila mountains). We actually made a record for the biggest group of bikers to climb it. The people who set the record before us did it in the early 1900s with as you can guess, crude no-suspension bikes. There is absolutely no way they could have gown down the hill as we did. I guess they were just carrying the bikes on their backs up the peak and the down again. I doubt they experienced the same enjoyment as we did as we were killing all them rocks and gaps and you name it... So yeah, it is a contradictory topic.

All the best :)

Robbyod
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 21:05 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby Robbyod » Wed Nov 28, 2012 21:45 pm

Firstly, well done, absolutely fantastic job on the finish and controls. I had been looking for my first arduino project for a while, the moment i saw this i wanted to install one on my Meta AM3.

As this will be my first microcontroller project I plan on installing a system like this but without the android app and sensors. I have minimal coding experience in vb, thats about it.....

Is there any chance you could provide further details on the components used, a parts list maybe?

Microcontroller is the pro micro 3.3 or 5v, not sure which
What are the servos used?
Is there a separate bluetooth module required?

If you plan on marketing this i would have no problem buying a kit or buying just the instructions from you.

Thanks for the inspiration and any feedback in advance

vkolotov
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 19:21 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby vkolotov » Wed Nov 28, 2012 23:42 pm

Hi all,
I can't share with you details about the system. Sorry for that.
Last edited by vkolotov on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vkolotov
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 19:21 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby vkolotov » Thu Nov 29, 2012 00:11 am

pe60t0 wrote:Firstly, let me congratulate @vkolotov for the (according to me) astonishing achievement. Keep up the good work. I am not sure if microcontrollers are a hobby only, but if so, then that is even better thing you have done here ! I particularly enjoy the part where you though of connecting bikes with computers. I have thought about it myself too and its great to see that people have done it.


Thank you for your feedback.

pe60t0 wrote:-> What time did it take you to build the whole thing(without the Android app, just the design, implementation of the electronics system and software ) ?

About 5-6 months I spent to build this system, but it was a part-time activity, I did it when I had a free time. I have really strong background in software engineering (starting with embedded applications and ending with enterprise applications), in fact it is my main activity at work, so it helped me a lot. Micro-electronics is just a hobby for me, however at my university I've had some courses which were mainly related to the electronics.

pe60t0 wrote:-> Did you build this on your own only, or you had some help too ?


Yes, I did it alone. But for testing the system I was looking for an XC proffesional/semi-proffesional rider, I've found one guy, so now the system is going to be tested by quite experienced XC rider.

pe60t0 wrote:-> What kind of testing did you do to make sure it is working correctly ? Or you just did multiple rides I guess ?


First of all, critical parts of the system are covered with unit tests. Finally, I did a lot of rides in order to test it. I am quite an active rider, 2-3 times a week I go to suburbs/countryside.

pe60t0 wrote:-> I am mostly interested in how did you set up the values for when the system does what it should do (angles of inclination, bump power, etc) ?


It is simple, there are default values stored in the internal memory (EEPROM). But you can modify them either through the buttons on the handle bar or through the android app.

pe60t0 wrote:I think this project can be extended in many ways, and probably you are thinking about it too. For example, changing the travel of the suspension based on the inclination ?


That is right, I have a plenty ideas in my head now. There were a lot of discussions on the internet about the future of this project.

vkolotov
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 19:21 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby vkolotov » Thu Nov 29, 2012 00:38 am

Robbyod wrote:Firstly, well done, absolutely fantastic job on the finish and controls. I had been looking for my first arduino project for a while, the moment i saw this i wanted to install one on my Meta AM3.


Thank you.


The picture you've seen of the PCB was taken a quite long time ago, in fact it was the second version of the board. But you can still use one of those sparkfun MCU, I am sure that it is doable with it (it does not matter whether it is 3.3v or 5v version, you should decide what is best for you). Moreover, you are not limited by sparkfun, there are a lot of analogues on the market.
Last edited by vkolotov on Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pe60t0
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 03, 2009 13:13 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby pe60t0 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:04 am

Thanks for answering my questions. Just out of curiosity (no need to answer) how is it going to be commercialized ? Did you get an offer from an investor(I guess bikes manufacturer) or you are planning to develop it on your own and sell it as your own product ?

vkolotov
Posts: 14
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 19:21 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby vkolotov » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:47 am

You are right, some of the manufacturers have already contacted with me. But, anyway, if we do not reach an agreement on cooperation, I'll try to find investors on kickstarter.

bobs bikes
Posts: 541
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 20:04 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby bobs bikes » Thu Nov 29, 2012 17:19 pm

ill test it for you!

Robbyod
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 21:05 pm

Re: Electronic Suspension System

Postby Robbyod » Thu Nov 29, 2012 21:34 pm

Kickstarter would be a great idea, it would keep it much more accessible to everyone.

I would imagine if it were comercialised thru established bike or shock manufacturers they would charge a fortune for it and only bundle it with their top of the line models.

Best of luck with the project anyway, hopefully i will have my own (much more limited) version installed soon.


Return to “MTB General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest