"Change Cycling Now"

Talk about competitive road cycling in all its forms
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ddraver
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"Change Cycling Now"

Postby ddraver » Thu Nov 29, 2012 19:48 pm

So some people have set up a group to campaign(?) for change in cycling

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13397 ... group.aspx

Opinions?

Some interesting peeps involved, Walsh, Kimmage, Vaughters, Vroomen, LeMond .They ve also added a fans voice in the shape of - http://www.cyclingfansvoice.org/ which involves one of the velocast pair and...erm...festinagirl)

Not sure about this to be honest....
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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ddraver
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby ddraver » Thu Nov 29, 2012 19:50 pm

More info on the fans stuff on their twitter page - https://twitter.com/cyclingfansvoic

which is concerning in itself...How exactly is festina girl going to campaign for Transparency without even telling us who she is?!?!?
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RichN95
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby RichN95 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 20:13 pm

The Coalition of the Self-Righteous would have been a better title.

You'll get a load of idealistic proposals which are largely impractical in real life and mostly legally untenable. But as they'll never have to put them in to practice they're free to say what the hell they like. (A bit like the LibDems before Clegg decided he'd actually like to get involved)
But it'll largely be a session of back-slapping and self-congratulation. And a few dopers lecturing clean athletes.

As for the self-appointed fans voice - well it's not the voice of the majority that's for sure. Certainly not me.
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BillyMansell
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby BillyMansell » Thu Nov 29, 2012 20:28 pm

Whilst I would applaud any effort to change the status quo, there has to be an initiative from the current pro and continental amateur riders as historically these are the ones who have been groomed and conditioned to see doping as acceptable. Some then go on to ascend the upper echelons of the sport with a mindset of such abuse that pervades their practice despite the public message they may portray.

A bottom up initiative among riders that embraces a sea change is what's required but I fear the incumbent top echelons will seek a tokenistic gesture to appease protest groups but won't tackle the grooming of young riders that embeds beliefs that winning at any cost is acceptable.

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TMR
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby TMR » Thu Nov 29, 2012 20:34 pm

Create a fully independent testing body. Make the punishment for the confirmed use of PEDs a life ban.

The end.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

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RichN95
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby RichN95 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 20:42 pm

The Mad Rapper wrote:Create a fully independent testing body. Make the punishment for the confirmed use of PEDs a life ban.

The end.


WADA won't let you do either of them. Look what they did to BOA's Olympic ban.

Start again.
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Richmond Racer
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby Richmond Racer » Thu Nov 29, 2012 20:47 pm

RichN95 wrote:The Coalition of the Self-Righteous would have been a better title.

You'll get a load of idealistic proposals which are largely impractical in real life and mostly legally untenable. But as they'll never have to put them in to practice they're free to say what the hell they like. (A bit like the LibDems before Clegg decided he'd actually like to get involved)
But it'll largely be a session of back-slapping and self-congratulation. And a few dopers lecturing clean athletes.

As for the self-appointed fans voice - well it's not the voice of the majority that's for sure. Certainly not me.



Yep. I had big doubts anyway but when I saw that Emma O'Reilly's lined up for their press conference on Monday, that's just confirmed things for me. WTF does she have to do with the future of cycling? No, its just about 'look what we did to bring down Lance, the Grand Poobah (sp?) of doping'

Then the absolute final straw was that self-righteous viscious tweeter...

Enough already. File under WASTE OF TIME

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TMR
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby TMR » Thu Nov 29, 2012 21:27 pm

RichN95 wrote:WADA won't let you do either of them. Look what they did to BOA's Olympic ban.

Start again.


How are they instituted? From where do they gain their legitimacy? I don't see why an independent body couldn't or shouldn't exist; particularly if the existing bodies aren't joined up and are ineffectual.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Abdoujaparov
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby Abdoujaparov » Thu Nov 29, 2012 21:38 pm

That cycling fans voice thing looks like it was written by a seven year old with a long career in local government.

oneof1982
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby oneof1982 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 22:03 pm

Yes. Should be dismissed out of hand. Much better to press for change by hiding behind an avatar and posting on bike radar.

Abdoujaparov
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby Abdoujaparov » Thu Nov 29, 2012 22:06 pm

oneof1982 wrote:Yes. Should be dismissed out of hand. Much better to press for change by hiding behind an avatar and posting on bike radar.


Yeah, don't get me wrong - I've just signed up. Yes please to change.

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andy_wrx
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby andy_wrx » Thu Nov 29, 2012 22:19 pm

Bruyneel is against it and calling them 'douches'
http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/ro ... ganisation

So do we think it's a good thing or a bad thing now then ?
:lol:

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ddraver
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby ddraver » Thu Nov 29, 2012 22:22 pm

^^+1, I hope it works, but I'm concerned that it may become a sideshow that the UCI can easily brush away.

Kind of feel like the UCI is Sauron and the one ring is the status quo. Both are looking for each other, both "want to be found"*. The UCI is desperate for things no to change so any opposing sides need to be extremely well organised or they ll be too easy to dismiss.

Cyclismas are a good example, any good stuff is ignored becasue it's too easy to point to all the rubbish they ve produced and just say the whole thing is irrelevant.

Bruyneel is already having a crack, if they make one or two mistakes, it ll be easy for others to follow...

*think I might have breathed to deeply past that coffee shop...
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oneof1982
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby oneof1982 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 22:39 pm

Bottom line is we are all (most anyway) writing on here on various threads calling for change. Here is a group, for good or bad, standing up with the makings of a manifesto. There is also a fans element to this, again, we can be cynical, but if they didn't have it we'd be moaning about that.

All great change happens when someone sticks their head above the parapet. In this case, those sticking their heads up are those that have rocked the foundations.

More power to their elbow, and I'll add my (real) name to their (our) cause.

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RichN95
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby RichN95 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 22:43 pm

andy_wrx wrote:So do we think it's a good thing or a bad thing now then ?
:lol:

It's not a question of good or bad. I just question their motives and ability to actually come up with anything useful. These aren't people who are strongly involved in cycling (Vaughters and Bugno have only been invited as team and rider representatives). They are on the fringes. Aggrieved idealists who have no idea the practiclities of running a sport. They will come with ideas which may sound great on paper but will have scant regard for legality, logistics and finance or the conflicting interests of half a dozen interested parties.

When the Armstrong affair was in the national news, Walsh (who is more of the more reasonable ones) was on Radio 5 and they asked him what he would have done with US Postal in the UCI's position. He said he would have looked at their HCT numbers, said this isn't right and thrown them out of the sport. Dictatorial, illegal and the start of lawsuits that would have bankrupted the sport. That's the level they will pitch this at. They may come up with some good ideas - but I won't hold my breath with this lot.

And if you want to have a meeting, just get on with it. Don't send out press releases calling it a 'summit'. It makes you look pompous.
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oneof1982
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby oneof1982 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 23:02 pm

RichN95 wrote:[ I just question their motives and ability to actually come up with anything useful. These aren't people who are strongly involved in cycling (Vaughters and Bugno have only been invited as team and rider representatives). They are on the fringes. Aggrieved idealists who have no idea the practiclities of running a sport.



Three times TdF winner Le Mond. On the firnges? He is one of the great clean names of the sport. If they are the aggeived idealists who have no idea, I'd still take them ahead of Fat Pat and his cronies anyday.

There are no greater defenders of the status quo than those who would have us do nothing.

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RichN95
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby RichN95 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 23:14 pm

oneof1982 wrote:Three times TdF winner Le Mond. On the firnges? He is one of the great clean names of the sport. If they are the aggeived idealists who have no idea, I'd still take them ahead of Fat Pat and his cronies anyday.

There are no greater defenders of the status quo than those who would have us do nothing.


And what position does LeMond hold in the sport other than ex-pro?

When Armstrong was winning his last Tour, Kimmage was writing off the career of a young talented clean rider called Gilbert, Wiggins was barely trying on the road, focussing on the track and Vaughters was starting up a small team committed to clean cycling.

Now Gilbert is world champion, Wiggins has won the Tour and Vaughters' team has won the Giro.

Something has clearly changed. Who made that happen? It certain wasn't down to LeMond, Fuller and Festinagirl.
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oneof1982
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby oneof1982 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 23:41 pm

RichN95 wrote:
oneof1982 wrote:Three times TdF winner Le Mond. On the firnges? He is one of the great clean names of the sport. If they are the aggeived idealists who have no idea, I'd still take them ahead of Fat Pat and his cronies anyday.

There are no greater defenders of the status quo than those who would have us do nothing.


And what position does LeMond hold in the sport other than ex-pro?

When Armstrong was winning his last Tour, Kimmage was writing off the career of a young talented clean rider called Gilbert, Wiggins was barely trying on the road, focussing on the track and Vaughters was starting up a small team committed to clean cycling.

Now Gilbert is world champion, Wiggins has won the Tour and Vaughters' team has won the Giro.

Something has clearly changed. Who made that happen? It certain wasn't down to LeMond, Fuller and Festinagirl.


So has Pat gone? Did I miss that?

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LeicesterLad
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby LeicesterLad » Fri Nov 30, 2012 08:15 am

No pleasing some people thats for sure.

'dope, dope dope, dirtie Bertie, Piti, Vino, sport ruined doping dope Armstrong cheating b*stards,

Oh wait, whats that, some people calling for a change and want to stamp out doping - F*cking ars*'ole pompous b*astards, who the f*ck are they anyway'.

And Rich
And if you want to have a meeting, just get on with it. Don't send out press releases calling it a 'summit'. It makes you look pompous.


I think the idea of calling press conferences is probably to get it out there, get the media to take notice, help pile a bit more pressure on Pat and co, no? Lets just let them sit in a little room behind closed doors where nobody can hear about it, support it, get behind the campaign and actually make it work. :roll:

I'm sorry the whole thing involves your arch enemy Kimmage, but surely anything like this is good for the sport, and the more publicity the better.

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ddraver
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Re: "Change Cycling Now"

Postby ddraver » Fri Nov 30, 2012 08:42 am

Trouble is LL, while I have no problem with the DS's and the doctors and the team managers etc being there, I don't understand why an ex-soigneur and a loud-mouth off of twitter (which, lets be blunt, is literally all we know about her at present) are there too.

Which fan are they representing? Mfin? Me? You? Frenchie? The drunk Basque guy on the Tourmalet? The YAnk in the Borat Mankini on the Alpe? All have an equal claim to cycling...
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