Bakala's new breakaway league

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Richmond Racer
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Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby Richmond Racer » Mon Nov 12, 2012 09:53 am

http://road.cc/content/news/70186-uci-c ... ns-cycling

OK, so what are peeps' thoughts on the proposal?

Seems that discussions have been going on between Bakala and many major teams for about 9 months including Sky and Garmin. UCI have signed a memo of understanding, but Bakala's warned that it will proceed with or without their involvement. Bakala and his partner Kok (how much fun are we going to have with THAT name) havent yet started discussions with RCS or ASO - without doubt the latter's going to be the tougher nut to crack, the family wont be wild about sharing TV revenues...

Does anyone see any potential conflict of interest re the sponsor of a major team, being at the head of the breakaway league?

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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby sherer » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:15 pm

Richmond Racer wrote:http://road.cc/content/news/70186-uci-confirms-involvement-champions-league%E2%80%99-plans-cycling

OK, so what are peeps' thoughts on the proposal?

Seems that discussions have been going on between Bakala and many major teams for about 9 months including Sky and Garmin. UCI have signed a memo of understanding, but Bakala's warned that it will proceed with or without their involvement. Bakala and his partner Kok (how much fun are we going to have with THAT name) havent yet started discussions with RCS or ASO - without doubt the latter's going to be the tougher nut to crack, the family wont be wild about sharing TV revenues...

Does anyone see any potential conflict of interest re the sponsor of a major team, being at the head of the breakaway league?


The idea sounds ok but it all depends on if the race organisers will give up their TV money to share it around the teams

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greasedscotsman
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby greasedscotsman » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Not keen on the idea of a series or a league. It's not F1 or soccerball! Does anyone care who won the UCI World Tour?

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Paul 8v
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby Paul 8v » Mon Nov 12, 2012 13:19 pm

I think it's a bit weird that no-one cares who wins it, their must be some merit in being the most consistent road cyclist. The world champion only has to win one race but the World tour champion has to win/be consistent throughout the season.

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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby Richmond Racer » Mon Nov 12, 2012 13:24 pm

Paul 8v wrote:I think it's a bit weird that no-one cares who wins it, their must be some merit in being the most consistent road cyclist. The world champion only has to win one race but the World tour champion has to win/be consistent throughout the season.



Perhaps it mean something special to a rider if they havent won any of the really big races that year. I doubt Wiggins or Boonen were bothered, given the season they've both had, whereas J-Rod was probably Mr Happy. And tbh the UCI points system in terms of points awarded to different races, is shoot. No, scratch that, the UCI points system is shoot altogether.
Last edited by Richmond Racer on Mon Nov 12, 2012 13:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby nathancom » Mon Nov 12, 2012 13:32 pm

I like how some older sports have maintained their less organized sporting calendars that are based around marquee events rather than a league - horseracing, cycling, cricket(if you just follow tests), tennis (mostly) are all based on a set of major events that have a legacy and meaning that can't really be calculated as worth x number of points.

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prawny
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby prawny » Mon Nov 12, 2012 14:41 pm

Paul 8v wrote:I think it's a bit weird that no-one cares who wins it, their must be some merit in being the most consistent road cyclist. The world champion only has to win one race but the World tour champion has to win/be consistent throughout the season.


They're not all racing with the same aims though are they. A teams championship would work as long as the number of points available worked out fairly for all teams irrespective of their goals for the season. I'd certainly root for certain teams over others.

At the moment it's a bit like having an individual footballers championship, it wouldn't work based purely on goals.
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rebs
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby rebs » Mon Nov 12, 2012 14:47 pm

That's the trick of it. to get all teams on board with the aim on winning as much as possible as opposed to what presently happens. some teams will only really want to focus on certain regional races to generate coverage.

A franchise system for cycling Would really do it wonders. It'll annoy the hell out of traditionalists but it'll give more security to teams and actual races.

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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby sherer » Mon Nov 12, 2012 16:48 pm

rebs wrote:That's the trick of it. to get all teams on board with the aim on winning as much as possible as opposed to what presently happens. some teams will only really want to focus on certain regional races to generate coverage.

A franchise system for cycling Would really do it wonders. It'll annoy the hell out of traditionalists but it'll give more security to teams and actual races.


This is the whole chicken \ egg thing though. A lot of the sponsors are only reagional and so don't care about racing in China and Australia. Not sure what needs to happen first, get the global sponsors on board first then grow the sport or try and grow the sport with regional sponsors, which they seems to be trying at the moment but without much luck

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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby Richmond Racer » Wed Dec 12, 2012 09:38 am

so...are we going to discuss this now they've stumped up some more detail?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/how-wor ... -the-sport


if it were to happen, end of cycling as we know it?

Cycling 'too confusing' for us fans? Cant work out what kind of riders the likes of Wiggins and Cav are?

Oooh, 10 4-day GPs to decide a 'world champion' (thought we already had a well established championship for that). Sprint, rouleur, mountain and TT stages (5 of which would be TTTs - cant see Vaughters influence in that at all)

Cant see RCS or ASO going for it myself.

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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby frenchfighter » Wed Dec 12, 2012 09:39 am

Depends if it has regulations producing:

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prawny
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby prawny » Wed Dec 12, 2012 14:18 pm

To be fair, it all seems very sanitary.

Like F1 used to be the F1 drivers racing in other championships at the same time, teams dipping in and out. There's no romance any more, but at the end of the day it's racing and it's racing that we enjoy.

I don't care one way or another really, the history is nice and all that but races and teams are struggling to survive, maybe this new format will make cycling more attractive to sponsors and it'll flourish, maybe it'll kill of the smaller races once and for all.

I'll be watching whatever the format.
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prawny
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby prawny » Wed Dec 12, 2012 14:40 pm

Actually reading the CN article, I'm thinking about a Grand Am style unrestricted no dope testing series for Ricco and Co. Who wants to fund it? I'll organise it'll be hilarious!
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greasedscotsman
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby greasedscotsman » Wed Dec 12, 2012 15:28 pm

a state-of-the art anti-doping program would eradicate doping


Oh really? :shock:

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LangerDan
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby LangerDan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 15:38 pm

prawny wrote:To be fair, it all seems very sanitary.

Like F1 used to be the F1 drivers racing in other championships at the same time, teams dipping in and out. There's no romance any more, but at the end of the day it's racing and it's racing that we enjoy.

I don't care one way or another really, the history is nice and all that but races and teams are struggling to survive, maybe this new format will make cycling more attractive to sponsors and it'll flourish, maybe it'll kill of the smaller races once and for all.

I'll be watching whatever the format.


I don't believe there is any "maybe" about it. The intent seems to be to steamroller any race that isn't part of their own package.

Assuming that the "season" for the 10 4-day races starts late February and finishes in mid October - that gives around 250 days for the whole year. Take out the 3 GTs - plus the "down-time" either side - say 28 days each and now you're down to 166 days available. ASO and RCS will not countenance having to scrap their other stage races like Paris-Nice, Oman, Qatar or Tirreno Adriatico. When combined with the "approved" one-day events, there are probably another 50 days gone. The new league will have to fit 40 racing days (plus probably another 2 logistics days per race for riders to travel so say 60 days in total) into the remaining 100 available days. There isn't anything near that sort of space available.

If I ran a race like the Tour de Suisse or the Quatre Jours de Dunkerque I'd be more than a little worried - similarly with the smaller Italian one-day races towards the end of the season.

To take Prawny's motorsport analogy a little further, back in the 90s the world rallying calendar was full of very individual events, each with its own character. These were then wrapped up into some homogenised WRC calendar, stamped with some common corporate identity and now they are indistinguishable.
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby Richmond Racer » Wed Dec 12, 2012 15:42 pm

greasedscotsman wrote:
a state-of-the art anti-doping program would eradicate doping


Oh really? :shock:



Quite. Arent we always being told that there are always new drugs coming out of the labs that are undetectable? And only in some fantasyland would there never be somebody or somebodies who wouldnt try their luck anyway.

Realistically the best that we can get to, is for the penalties to be so great that they massively outweigh the reward for the vast majority of riders and teams.

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prawny
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby prawny » Wed Dec 12, 2012 16:38 pm

LangerDan wrote:To take Prawny's motorsport analogy a little further, back in the 90s the world rallying calendar was full of very individual events, each with its own character. These were then wrapped up into some homogenised WRC calendar, stamped with some common corporate identity and now they are indistinguishable.



But a lot of those events are still going on, they just don't attract the top tier any more. Below the WTC or whatever it's called, we could have an Intercontinental Cycling Championship or similiar. It could give more exposure and structure to the smaller teams, and make it fairer dishing out wildcards for the GTs.

I'm not sure either way, but there are some positives if you squint hard enough.
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby Richmond Racer » Wed Dec 12, 2012 18:05 pm

10 x 4 day races following exactly the same format. Despite what Price and Bakala say e.g. Contador vs Wiggins - top GC riders arent going to ride these instead of decent 7+ day stage races to prepare for GTs - 4 days just isnt enough. And its not just the GC guys - domestiques and the sprinters need longer races in their legs ahead of GTs. Talking of the sprinters, whats in it for them? They cant challenge for the overall win and the associated points - they lose too much time in the mountain stage.

And ultimately who cares who comes out with the highest number of points at the end? even with the UCI WT points system, do fans really care about it? from my perspective, I dont give a toot, its the winners of individual races who stick out in my mind. As for the riders if you ask Purito whether he'd rather head up the UCI points list for 2012 or have won the Giro, its no contest.

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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby Tom Butcher » Wed Dec 12, 2012 18:13 pm

These proposals look absolute sh ite. Does anyone really want a load of 4 day stage races - especially where a quarter of the racing is time trials. There is a limit to how many races any cycling fan really cares about - I'd suggest that 3 grand tours, the classics and a couple of week long stage races is plenty. Now we are expected to care who wins another 10 4 dayers - I don't think so - you can have too much of a good thing and I don't think I'd be tuning in. If it ends up detracting from the classics, Giro or Vuelta it'd just make me watch less of the sport not more.

Look at cricket - who cares if they lose there'll be another "important" international match along next week in one form of the game or another.
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Re: Bakala's new breakaway league

Postby squired » Wed Dec 12, 2012 18:41 pm

Part of the idea seems to be that the star riders take part in the series of races. If so, surely that means teams would reduce their rosters. Do you need 30 riders if the key racing days are focused on the same guys?

I've seen it said elsewhere that the biggest problem with sport is generating mass appeal. To do that you can often offend the hardcore fans, but that is part of becoming mainstream. Presumably the hope is that large numbers of people would start to pay more attention to cycling. If the main riders are in each race they get to know the names of the stars of the sport and then it means even more to them.

If anyone should be worried about this it is the riders, because many of them could be out of a job. If there are smaller rosters and a handful of key races, what incentive is there to perform a team role, given that you are making yourself extremely easy to replace? At the same time, wages for star riders could increase even more.


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