Went down today due to massive rut in road

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IanLD
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Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby IanLD » Sun Dec 16, 2012 23:20 pm

Went down for the first time in about 26 years due to my wheel hitting the side of a massive rut in the road.

Couldn't see it because of the low sun until I was in it (doing about 18 at the time) and jagged edges caught the front wheel. Tried to save it, but ended up high siding and me and the bike deposited in the middle of the road.

Bar ends ripped off, saddle twisted, wheels slightly buckled (discs so not too much of a problem), bars may be bent, cadence sensor no longer working, jacket ripped, base layer ripped, grazed knees, grazed elbows, sore leg and now got a massive headache and sore neck.

Phoned CTC legal advice who will call back tomorrow, but unsure as to why I have a sore neck. It was damaged in a crash on the M6 11 years ago when a van ploughed in to the back of my car. Has anyone had an injury similar to whiplash due to a bike crash? If pain it still there in the morning, I'll go to see GP, but don't want to seem as if I am trying to dress up a claim.

Main concern is getting cost of clothing and damaged bits of bike paid by council. Happened in Scotland if that makes any difference. Got a local who has said he is willing to confirm road was already in bad condition and has been poorly repaired. Lots of photos too including the gory ones I got my son to take!

ChrisAOnABike
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby ChrisAOnABike » Sun Dec 16, 2012 23:53 pm

Good luck with the legals. I've now twice been past an absolute fuckoff pothole, just about here iirc, missedit by a few inches each time, and guaranteed I'd be off if I hit it.
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elderone
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby elderone » Mon Dec 17, 2012 00:16 am

When i got knocked off 2 months ago from behind,along with other injuries I got whiplash which is according to my gp,is neck muscle trauma.It is associated with car accidents mainly but is the same injury.It is quite possible you going down did hurt your neck muscles.Mine lasted about 6 weeks or so.
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IanLD
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby IanLD » Mon Dec 17, 2012 07:35 am

Head and neck feeling a bit better this morning, but will see what CTC legal people say if they want me to go to GP.

That would possibly leave me with my gravel rash and bruising as injuries. Do these count if a claim is upheld as well as bike and clothing?

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diy
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby diy » Mon Dec 17, 2012 07:50 am

Care to post pics of the road?

You'll need to show it had been reported to them and that they could and should have repaired it but did not. You may also need to show why you could not avoid it. (Scottish law may be different).

You wont get much for minor injuries that will heal quickly.

logitech208
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby logitech208 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 08:50 am

Whilst I feel for you having a crash, are your really considering trying to claim against your council because you hit a pot hole. Good luck with that.

cougie
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby cougie » Mon Dec 17, 2012 09:21 am

If the sun was low - was it wise to do 18mph ? I guess that's what they'll be saying.

Hope you recover quickly.

Critch
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby Critch » Mon Dec 17, 2012 09:35 am

Why shouldn't he considering claiming? And you can do 18mph without even realising it unless you've got a ***** of a headwind. I'm sensing a wee bit of bah humbug!

The Law - section 58 of the Highways Act 1980
The Council as the Highway Authority manages public roads and footways and strives to ensure that they are in good order. There is a statutory duty on the Authority to keep roads maintained under the Highways Act 1980.

The Highways Act 1980 acknowledges that it is not possible to keep the road network entirely free from defects, and that it is unreasonable to expect local authorities to know about all defects and to repair them the moment they appear. Similarly, not all defects are serious enough to represent a danger to to road users.

In recognition of this, local authorities have a legally recognised defence to compensation claims under section 58 of the Highways Act 1980. To be able to rely on the defence, the County Council must have a clear policy setting out its road maintenance regime, and must comply with its own policy and standards.

The maintenance regime includes: -

regular safety inspections of the highway
a system to identify and prioritise defects and hazards
response times to undertake repairs.


The bolded bit is key here. What the claimant has to do is establish when that road was last inspected by the local authority. They have to disclose that info. If its an unreasonable time between inspections then this strengthens the case for damages.

This is why we should all report nasty potholes to our local authorities when we see them, not just when we crash because of them. Its a case of looking out for each other. I report every nasty pothole I come across - they are usually right where we need to cycle and don't really affect car drivers that much so the duty really does fall on cyclists shoulders. Obviously I don't report every single one or I'd be on the phone forever, but the dangerous ones really do need calling in.

Having reported a nasty pothole if someone is then seriously injured and the local authority failed to act in a reasonable time to carry our repairs then they are liable. Simplez.

Scottish Law may be different of course as this Act only covers England and Wales, but there should be similar legislation with our northern friends. Granted this may make my contribution a bit moot, but Ive put it out there anyhow as its pretty dang valid.

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Rolf F
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby Rolf F » Mon Dec 17, 2012 09:39 am

I bent two rims on one pothole. Didn't bother claiming because they were quick to fill it when I reported it. The only thing that bothers me about it is the crap job they do of filling it - it was refilled no less than 3 times last year and it's definitely been a dodgy spot since at least 2008.

I presume the OP has reported the hole so that no one else goes down because of it.

Gravel rash and bruising as a basis for a compo claim? :lol:
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tiredofwhiners
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby tiredofwhiners » Mon Dec 17, 2012 09:47 am

I have been through the whole claim issue twice in the last 7 years or so.

Leicestershire paid out as long as I waived any right to personal damages etc - they paid for the bike repair.

Solihull Council told me politely to take a hike - they sent the survey schedule and details of when they surveyed the area. They pointed out that they had a policy and complied with the relevant standards, which if I recall correctly, was that they only repair holes greater than 2 inches in depth. They handed the whole thing of the Zurich Insurance. They did nowever fill the offending hole immediately.

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Navrig
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby Navrig » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:09 pm

diy wrote:Care to post pics of the road?

You'll need to show it had been reported to them and that they could and should have repaired it but did not. You may also need to show why you could not avoid it. (Scottish law may be different).

You wont get much for minor injuries that will heal quickly.


I think that is the case. Worth a check on fixmystreet.com to see if it has previously been reported using that medium. Otherwise it could be difficult to force a claim. Good luck and GWS.

GSVBagpuss
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby GSVBagpuss » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:23 pm

Rolf F wrote:The only thing that bothers me about it is the crap job they do of filling it - it was refilled no less than 3 times last year and it's definitely been a dodgy spot since at least 2008.


Round my way I'm sure the council fill all potholes with porridge - looks great when it goes on but heaven forbid any rain falls on it

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Peat
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby Peat » Mon Dec 17, 2012 13:08 pm

simply filling a pothole is a waste of time. It is better cut the section out, properly dry and prepare the surface and then patch it. But, then if the patch isn't sealed perfectly at the edges, a pothole will form there.

They have a job on their hands to keep the roads immaculate considering the volume of traffic/inclement weather we have here.

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diy
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby diy » Mon Dec 17, 2012 14:16 pm

Again - no idea about Scottish law, but in English law Wilkinson 2011 is probably precedent. It establishes both:
- contributory negligence to the tune of 50% for failure to avoid the hole.
- and the regime that must be adopted to check the state of roads and liability for deviation.

it is not straightforward and may not even apply to scotty law. relevant cases are:
Griffiths –v- Liverpool Corporation
“(2) In an action against a highway authority in respect of damage resulting from their failure to maintain a highway maintainable at the public expense, it shall be a defence.. to prove that the authority had taken such care.. particular have regard to the following matters, that is to say – (a) the character of the highway and the traffic which was reasonably to be expected to use it; (b) the standard of maintenance appropriate for a highway of that character and used by such traffic; (c) the state of repair in which a reasonable person would have expected to find the highway; (d) whether the highway authority knew, or could reasonably have been expected to know, that the condition of the part of the highway to which the action relates was likely to cause danger to users of the highway; (e) where the highway authority could not reasonably have been expected to repair that part of the highway before the cause of action arose, what warning notices of its condition had been displayed. ”

Haydon v Kent CC - not sure why this is relevant, but its been cited in the above
Wilkinson -v- The City of York Council

binsted
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby binsted » Mon Dec 17, 2012 17:24 pm

Navrig wrote:
diy wrote:
I think that is the case. Worth a check on fixmystreet.com to see if it has previously been reported using that medium. Otherwise it could be difficult to force a claim. Good luck and GWS.


You learn something on here everyday. I did not know about this site or the rules relating to surveying and repairing potholes but it seems a responsibility all cyclists should embody.

After avoiding a deep pothole for about a year I have reported it, be interesting to see if this works and it gets repaired.

IanLD
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby IanLD » Tue Dec 18, 2012 01:06 am

Thanks for the comments - some perhaps a bit more helpful than others :wink:

Hole was reported immediately after I crashed using the CTC app 'fill that hole' on my iphone. It is number 73619 if you want to see the exact location.

Not 100% sure how to upload photos here. Could someone advise me on the process and as I have started a claim using the CTC legal advice team, would I be prejudicing it if I post them here?

Have been advised to go to see my GP for confirmation of injuries and to ascertain that nothing I'm not aware of has happened.

Started adding up the damage to clothing and bike and I'm already over £290 :shock:

Anyone else used the CTC legal service for a similar incident and if so, how did it go?

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diy
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby diy » Tue Dec 18, 2012 07:31 am

Image
IanLD wrote:Not 100% sure how to upload photos here. Could someone advise me on the process and as I have started a claim using the CTC legal advice team, would I be prejudicing it if I post them here?


You need to think mainly about why you could not avoid it and if the maintenance is in accordance with their policy for b-roads. But best not to discuss here. You'll get a view soon enough on your prospects and nothing you post here will change that unless you say something to increase any claim of contributory negligence.

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Raffles
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby Raffles » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:08 pm

I had utmost sympathy for the OP until he brought up the good ole sore neck :roll:

Proper whiplash doesnt come into play until 2 or 3 days has passed and the courts know this only too well. I hope you get your bike sorted.
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IanLD
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby IanLD » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:31 pm

Raffles wrote:I had utmost sympathy for the OP until he brought up the good ole sore neck :roll:

Proper whiplash doesnt come into play until 2 or 3 days has passed and the courts know this only too well. I hope you get your bike sorted.


I know all about 'proper' whiplash having been rear ended on the M6 12 years ago. Let me tell you, the pain lasted for months and I still have problems if I lift anything heavy.

Seeing GP tomorrow for CTC legal purposes, but don't imagine they will have much to say other than confirm cuts, grazes and bruises. Will see if they have any comments on back or neck - will be nearly three days, so time ideal if any problems are evident.

Glad that the really sore head I had on Sunday night has gone, but getting a sore head thinking about how much damage done to bike and clothing...

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Cleat Eastwood
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Re: Went down today due to massive rut in road

Postby Cleat Eastwood » Tue Dec 18, 2012 14:13 pm

That looks like its been dug out mechanically going by the slope at the top of the pic - was there a grid nearby - when they do roadworks on grids by us the cone the place off.

Having said that teh roads round here have deteriorated massively with recent cold snap....and that was only a couple of days long.
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