Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

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Greg66 Tri v2.0
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Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby Greg66 Tri v2.0 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 22:48 pm

I'm pretty sure this will work, but I've been pretty sure in the past that things like this will work, and two days laters I've worked out why they don't. So, a question:

THE SHORT VERSION

Can I daisy chain kit as follows: router-AP1-AP2? Or must I configure them radially (router-AP1 plus router-AP2)?

THE LONG VERSION

I have a netgear router (call it "O") sitting at the front of the house next to a BT infinity modem. I have three wireless APs hanging off it via homeplugs. All works very well. One AP (call it "X") is in the study at the back of the house. It is a neutered netgear router (N750) configured as an AP. The home plug originating from the router is plugged into port 1 of the LAN ports on X, as Netgear recommends when you use a neutered router as an AP.

My next task is to add a further AP to the network. The new AP is to go at the end of the garden. The best solution as far as I am concerned is to run an Ethernet cable from one of X's LAN ports to the end of the garden, and into LAN port 1 of another neutered router at the end of garden (call it "Y"). 

Then I wondered: right now, I have every AP sitting there with a direct connection to O via homeplug. But will an AP - Y, in this case - function as an AP even though it is not connected directed to O? I will have O <homeplug> X <ethernet> Y; but do I need O <ethernet> Y with no intermediate hardware for Y to work as an AP?

Any thoughts?
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cyclingprop
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby cyclingprop » Sat Dec 29, 2012 23:08 pm

The answer (as in any good IT problem) is... It depends on your kit.
What do you mean you think 64cm is a big frame?

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Greg66 Tri v2.0
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby Greg66 Tri v2.0 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 23:15 pm

cyclingprop wrote:The answer (as in any good IT problem) is... It depends on your kit.


Great. Bloody IT geeks.

Well, after I turned it all off and turned it back on again, the kit is:

O = Netgear WNDR3800
X = Netgear WNDR4000
O/X connection is by Netgear homeplugs, and works just fine. The main computer in the house has a wired Ethernet connection to X.

Y will be either a 3800 or a 4000. X/Y connection will be by about 50m of CAT5 cable.
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cyclingprop
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby cyclingprop » Sat Dec 29, 2012 23:21 pm

Can you draw me a picture?
What do you mean you think 64cm is a big frame?

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Greg66 Tri v2.0
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby Greg66 Tri v2.0 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 23:29 pm

cyclingprop wrote:Can you draw me a picture?


No.

You're like the Irish one, aren't you? Moss would be much more helpful than you.
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CiB
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby CiB » Sun Dec 30, 2012 09:04 am

I say it'll work. If it doesn't a switch plugged into that final HP with the AP and the 50 yard ethernet pluggged into the switch will.

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walkingbootweather
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby walkingbootweather » Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:23 am

Have you tried switching it off and on again? Apparently that makes any IT kit work :wink:
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby Greg66 Tri v2.0 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:15 am

walkingbootweather wrote:Have you tried switching it off and on again? Apparently that makes any IT kit work :wink:


See post 3 in this thread.

At least no one has suggested the other IT "solution": reformat your hard drive and do a fresh install of Windows.

@CiB: cheers for that. I shall roll the dice with slightly less diffidence.

Of course, it may not work because I shall be debuting my mad "wiring an Ethernet socket" skillz. Can't see how that can go wrong, or lead to connection issues. Can you?
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby _Jon_ » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:18 am

I recon it would work. The router (X) is basically acting as an AP but with a switch attached. If you plugged a laptop into one of those ports, you should get a network connection so there's no reason I can see that that network connection can't be taken down the garden (via an ethernet cable) to another AP.

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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby cookdn » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:42 pm

_Jon_ wrote:I recon it would work. The router (X) is basically acting as an AP but with a switch attached. If you plugged a laptop into one of those ports, you should get a network connection so there's no reason I can see that that network connection can't be taken down the garden (via an ethernet cable) to another AP.


+1, should be fine as long as you ignore any RJ45 ports marked as WAN (except at the connection to the BT Infinity modem). Strictly, if the power connection at the bottom of the garden doesn't share the same earthing point as the power connection in the main house you shouldn't connect the two via wired Ethernet. However in practice it probably wouldn't matter.

Another option that might be more convenient than a long cable is to use the garden AP as a repeater that connects wirelessly to one of the APs in the house. If this feature isn't supported in the standard Netgear firmware you could always flash the APs with a third-party firmware such as DD-WRT.

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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby gtvlusso » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:08 am

cookdn wrote:
_Jon_ wrote:I recon it would work. The router (X) is basically acting as an AP but with a switch attached. If you plugged a laptop into one of those ports, you should get a network connection so there's no reason I can see that that network connection can't be taken down the garden (via an ethernet cable) to another AP.


+1, should be fine as long as you ignore any RJ45 ports marked as WAN (except at the connection to the BT Infinity modem). Strictly, if the power connection at the bottom of the garden doesn't share the same earthing point as the power connection in the main house you shouldn't connect the two via wired Ethernet. However in practice it probably wouldn't matter.

Another option that might be more convenient than a long cable is to use the garden AP as a repeater that connects wirelessly to one of the APs in the house. If this feature isn't supported in the standard Netgear firmware you could always flash the APs with a third-party firmware such as DD-WRT.

Best regards


Technically, this all works in terms of connectivity;

However, all of this is depending on the the length of cable required - the loss in the cable over than distance may cause other issues. So, I would reel it out over the garden and try it before I dug a big hole a buried the cable....I suspect that cat 5 can work over quite a distance, however, you may have a ******* huge garden!

See this re: Max cable length : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable

**I would use a wireless repeater.....

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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby InkZ » Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:04 am

O <homeplug> X <ethernet> Y will work fine.

I also wouldn't worry about any loss on the cable unless you live in a stately home.

I have an Ethernet cable running to an old wireless router which has DHCP disabled, in the back of my garage from the main router in the front of my house which is about 60 foot. It's buried under the driveway in a pipe. Lay a pipe and make sure you have a bit of string you leave in there so you can pull other cables if you need to.

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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby TailWindHome » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:00 pm

Need a bit of internet 'me time' in the privacy of the shed Greg?

You dirty old man!
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby davis » Tue Jan 01, 2013 16:38 pm

InkZ wrote:O <homeplug> X <ethernet> Y will work fine.

I also wouldn't worry about any loss on the cable unless you live in a stately home.

I have an Ethernet cable running to an old wireless router which has DHCP disabled, in the back of my garage from the main router in the front of my house which is about 60 foot. It's buried under the driveway in a pipe. Lay a pipe and make sure you have a bit of string you leave in there so you can pull other cables if you need to.


This.

Essentially X will be acting as a switch and a WirelessAP in one unit. You're merely extending the ethernet segment, so it should work fine, and AP Y won't really be "aware" of X's presence.

I'd also consider using exterior grade ethernet cable and running it all in a 4" soil pipe underground.

Edit: How chuffing big is your chuffing house to require 4 APs fer gawd's sake?
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Greg66 Tri v2.0
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby Greg66 Tri v2.0 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 17:41 pm

So, I spent the best part of today cabling Ethernet, coax and satellite cables in 25mm trunking. Yippee.

During many of the moments of excitement as I realised that trying to pull a kinked Ethernet cable into the trunking was probably not the smartest thin to do, it occurred to me that I could test this by taking one of the other APs in the house, plugging it into the LAN side of X and seeing what happened. Anyway, too knackered to try that now. Will try tomorrow.

In other news, why are the strands in Ethernet cable so ******* thin? Got six punched down and then the so called punch down tool decides it will be great fun to sever number 7 rather than punch it down. 49.6 metres of ******* cable on the other side of the wall, and there I am working with 10cm, getting closer to the wall with each successive screw up. Bah.
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby itboffin » Tue Jan 01, 2013 18:25 pm

This reminds me of the story about the man that tried to wrap a present for his wife.
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby Veronese68 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 22:51 pm

itboffin wrote:This reminds me of the story about the man that tried to wrap a present for his wife.

Chortle chortle. Where's the like button? Or was it a present for the man's daughter?
I was wondering why I was reading this thread as I didn't understand most of it, until then.

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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby Greg66 Tri v2.0 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 20:03 pm

Many of you have written in in a state that I can only really describe as nearly hysterical, such was the need to know how this turned out. Well, dear readers, I'm pleased to be able to report that it's almost there.

The cable has been laid, and unless I have completely fcuked it by pulling one of the many kinks in the cable straight, it should carry a signal. Hopefully my complete inability to wire an Ethernet socket won't fcuk things too badly either.

But as for the juicy stuff:

Router (LAN) -> AP (LAN) worked just fine. Router (LAN) -> AP1 (LAN) -> AP2 (LAN) was a disaster. The network fell over immediately.

However, Router (LAN) -> AP1 (WAN); AP1 (LAN) -> AP2 (WAN) works just fine. I know many of you will sleep a bit easier tonight.

Cheerio!
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby itboffin » Sun Jan 27, 2013 20:59 pm

its taken you a month?
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Greg66 Tri v2.0
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Re: Geeky anorak IT nerds, lend me your ears!

Postby Greg66 Tri v2.0 » Sun Jan 27, 2013 22:51 pm

Well, you know, I've had a lot on.
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