Should I buy a Titanium

Discuss the eternal "Which fork/bike/tyres should I buy?" questions.
Ironpins
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Should I buy a Titanium

Postby Ironpins » Mon Dec 31, 2012 07:05 am

Hi

Recently I damaged the rear stays on my Merida Carbon (dual sus). The local importers have been great and have agreed to replace them at no charge. However, decided I'd rather use my Merida Alu, also dual sus. I've noticed a crack on the frame - where the seat tube and top tube meet. Nothing too serious but will need to have the frame replaced.

I'm 1.9m and weigh 103kg's (but lean). I ride hard and as a result I've been thinking about switching to a dual 29er Titanium. Any advice welcome.

Thanks

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Mojo_666
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby Mojo_666 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 08:06 am

I weigh the same as you and have never broken a frame, maybe the issue is with Merida bikes? :|

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supersonic
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby supersonic » Mon Dec 31, 2012 16:54 pm

Per amount of frames made, I see more bust titanium than anything else.

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njee20
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby njee20 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 17:49 pm

Ti FS are fairly rare too, bit like steel FS, it's just not the ideal material. They tend to be heavier and more expensive than alu/carbon.

marz
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby marz » Tue Jan 01, 2013 18:01 pm

I'm about the same height and weight as you and have cracked frames in the same place as you (both expensive and cheap frames). It's not so much the material, but the abuse we give the frame and to be honest a Ti frame isn't going to much stronger than a carbon or Alu frame. It's more about construction and riding style than material.

What size frame do you ride? How much seatpost is showing? Riding a smaller frame with a long seatpost introduces a lot force/leverage into the seat tube/top tube area. So far riding a 21" frame has worked out better for me than riding something smaller.

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RRSODL
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby RRSODL » Tue Jan 01, 2013 21:39 pm

njee20 wrote:Ti FS are fairly rare too, bit like steel FS, it's just not the ideal material. They tend to be heavier and more expensive than alu/carbon.


Of course you can support that statement, right?

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Clank
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby Clank » Tue Jan 01, 2013 21:55 pm

From an engineering design point of view, it's very easy to support.

Thermoset based carbon fibre materials will be stiffer (which is why we use composites in the first place) and stronger than the typical frame metals (steel, ali and tit alloys), and with no welds at the nodes (let's put the maximum material damage and the points of maximal mechancial stress), you lose one the key weaknesses of titanium, and aluminium. And actually steel for the matter.

In terms of use for FS frames - why would I use a springy, undamped material which will detract from the effectiveness of the suspension I'm trying to opitmise, and negatively influence the performance of the pivot points? I want the stiffest chassis possible. For a hartail - different story, hence the desire for steel or tit. But on an FS, I want stiff - either hydroformed, large-section ali, or CFRP.

I'm happy with Njee's synopsys.
How would I write my own epitaph? With a crayon - I'm not allowed anything I can sharpen to a sustainable point.

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein are worth exactly what you paid for them.

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supersonic
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby supersonic » Tue Jan 01, 2013 21:58 pm

The statement is true. Titanium is hard (and expensive) to fabricate into the often complex shapes required by full suspension frames. Carbon and alu are both cheaper and less dense, easier to handle and, when oversized, form frames that have a better stiffness to weight ratio as well.

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Clank
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby Clank » Tue Jan 01, 2013 22:07 pm

Yeah, I'd go with that.
How would I write my own epitaph? With a crayon - I'm not allowed anything I can sharpen to a sustainable point.

Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein are worth exactly what you paid for them.

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njee20
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby njee20 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 23:10 pm

RRSODL wrote:
njee20 wrote:Ti FS are fairly rare too, bit like steel FS, it's just not the ideal material. They tend to be heavier and more expensive than alu/carbon.


Of course you can support that statement, right?


And if you want real world examples the Titus Racer-X, Ellsworth Truth and Litespeed Niota are all heavier in their (significantly more expensive) titanium guise than alu.

How do you want to dispute it?

Ironpins
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Re: Should I buy a Titanium

Postby Ironpins » Wed Jan 02, 2013 06:20 am

marz wrote:I'm about the same height and weight as you and have cracked frames in the same place as you (both expensive and cheap frames). It's not so much the material, but the abuse we give the frame and to be honest a Ti frame isn't going to much stronger than a carbon or Alu frame. It's more about construction and riding style than material.

What size frame do you ride? How much seatpost is showing? Riding a smaller frame with a long seatpost introduces a lot force/leverage into the seat tube/top tube area. So far riding a 21" frame has worked out better for me than riding something smaller.


Thanks Marz - good point. I'm currently riding a large 20". I have a fairly aggressive riding style, which as you say does put significant stress on the frame. Also, had a really bad fall 2 years ago followed by a back op - L3,L4 and L5 replaced with Ti. So unfortunately have to stick to a FS.


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